I'm with you guys that a combination of all these things led to Anne's ascent.  In a biography I read (either Eric Ives or Joanna Denny, I forget.  Denny to me has a lot less credibility as she tends to manipulate facts to support her assertions.) it was pointed out that Henry's pursuit of Anne would have been called sexual harassment in modern terms.  Wyatt's famous \”Whoso list to hunt\” shows her to be pursued on all sides by a pack of hunters, and David Starkey refers to her often as \”the hunted huntress.\” 

I think that in the beginning, Henry was pursuing someone who genuinely didn't want him.  The lure of the crown plus her family's ambition pushed her toward him, and I believe they genuinely fell in love.  I am a big admirer of Catherine of Aragon, but I can understand Anne's hatred toward her and I think that hatred drove her to push for a crown vehemently.  Catherine, though genuinely faithful, used her religion for political ends and to gain support among the people.  She also was prepared to have Charles V invade England on her behalf, which, like it or not, was indeed treason.  Anne hated that Catherine refused to gracefully step aside and instead caused almost all of Europe to hate Anne, \”the scandal of Christendom.\”  I doubt Anne would be such a controversial figure had Catherine quietly retired to a nunnery.  Anne was pro-French, which was very forward thinking of her (though of course her pro-French stance had a lot to do with her spending her formative years there) because France was the most powerful nation in Christendom at the time and was churning out controversial people and theories; theories which would overtake England very quickly.  Spain, on the other hand, was somewhat backward-thinking, and although it was the wealthies nation, it was also the most \”medieval.\”  Catherine's father Ferdinand had financed the infamous Spanish Inquisition.  When the Pope said the Spanish Inquisition was going too far and torturing and killing innocent people, Ferdinand accused the Pope of being controlled by the Jews and amped up the torture.  He also betrayed Henry in their wars with France, luring him into war and then essentially ditching him in Europe.  If you believe Anne's murder was politically motivated, it would be because Anne was pro-French and Henry was looking for a Spanish alliance.  After Anne's death Ferdinand's nephew Charles V lured Henry into war against the French again and betrayed him, making a separate peace with the French at the expense of the English alliance.  It seems Anne was right in her distrust of the Spanish and I hope Henry realized that and felt like an ass.

And finally, there is nothing wrong with ambition.  Henry's \”true wife\” (blech!) Jane Seymour probably didn't suddenly fall in love with him after serving his other wives for years-her ascent was politically motivated.  And if Chapuys' descriptions of her are to be believed, she didn't have much personality and probably didn't have the cunning to decide to capture the king on her own.  She was pushed by her family and conservative partisans like Nicholas Carewe.  Anne, on the other hand, had the personality and cunning to have decided on the king without any prodding from her family.

It could've been a combination of things. She was highly intelligent. Her father certainly wanted to get up there in the peerage. Her uncle wanted any amount of power that he could get his disgusting hands on. I think a lot of it was her family's ambition, not necessarily her own.

Of course after Henry fell in love with her, she wanted her position to be totally secure. I understand why she did what she did.. Do I agree with it, not exactly. I don't think the things she did were out of ambition or maliciousness. She was desperate to keep her position, and did whatever she had to do to keep it.

I agree with you claire, she must have been scared, in a matter of days she lost everything, her best friend and brother, close friends, a husband and the love of her family, her own uncle the one reading her sentence. When she discovered Henry's new love im sure it scared the crap out of her, she had is heart for so long that it was probably hard to imagine that it could be possible for him to love someone else, yet he began to, and through it all she held her own, acting with grace, except the moment when she ripped the miniture of henry from Jane's neck, which i thought was AWESOME!!!

and as for the manipulation/ambition discussion, it was definately both, she calculated much of her rise yet ambition is wat drove her and a eventual true and lasting love carried her. whatever maybe said she loved Henry and did nothing wrong except fail to give him a male heir…which i have to say; how many misscarriges did his wifes have? alot and the only common denominator? his weak sperm….hahaha

oh i know me to! i think if they had fought it obviously woulda been our Queen that won  and think if she was still living we could get \”team Anne\” shirts haha her drama tops any cat fight in hollywood!!!

I know this is really really late to reply, sorry, but it's a great topic!

I think Anne and Henry were soulmates. They were very much alike–perhaps too much alike to ever get along without trials. At the beginning of Henry's courtship of Anne, I believe Anne had seen her sister Mary suffer and really didn't want a broken heart, loveless marriage etc and that's why she originally abstained from becoming Henry's mistress. Also, Anne wanted to bring Wolsey down because of his interference with Percy and her. What if at the beginning she wanted to get back at Henry too?

Soon I think she developed real feelings for Henry, but her feelings were mixed up in both her own ambition and her family's. She wasn't a wallflower who was going to do everything her family asked–didn't they ask her to become Henry's mistress? And our clever Anne said no! Good for her. But I think she was definitely spurred by them and their ceaseless pushing, as well as her personal ambition, which was definitely strong.

I think it was probably difficult for Anne to tell just where her family's and her ambitions ended and where her true feelings for Henry began, because they were so intertwined.

In my opinion, at first Anne really did not want to be Henry's mistress but she warmed to the idea of being his wife and Queen because of ambition and manipulation. She was definitely in league with her family, and not completely manipulated by them, although in the end she saw them for who they truly were: her own uncle pronounced her guilty! So, in a way, Anne was manipulated by the ambitious Boleyns and corrupted Howards.

More or less, though, I don't think everything was her ambition or her family's manipulation. It was a combination of both, mixed in with enmity towards Wolsey and perhaps the King, fear of becoming like her sister Mary, and true love for Henry. She should not be judged harshly in my opinion at all.