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1:00 am
January 22, 2014
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Hi All,
By way of introduction, as my profile mentions, if my researches are correct, Anna Bullein is my 10th great grandmother, being connected by marriage to the families of Newcomen, Atkinson, L’Estrange and finally Angus. I have an extensive section in my family tree covering many of the descendants of Anna Bullein available upon request for genuine researchers.
I realise there have been a number of posts in another topic mentioning Anna Bullein, but I felt she may warrant her own topic header because her ancestry is sufficiently intriguing to discuss a number of issues. I suggest we use her name in this topic as Anna Bullein to save confusion with Queen Anne Boleyn.
Here’s my understanding of Anna Bullein’s life events and ancestry:
Anna Bullein was supposedly born 1606 (although I have seen birth dates 1598 or 1603) in Kenagh, Co Longford, Ireland and was married 1626 to Sir Robert Newcomen, 4th Baronet (1596 – 1677) by which she had the children:
Catherine Newcomen Countess of Granard (1625 – 1714)
Anne Boleyn Newcomen (1632 – 1709)
Sir Thomas Newcomen 5th Baronet of Mosstown (1634 – 1668)
Anna’s father was supposedly George Bullein or Boleyn (reputedly living 1559 – 1606) and possible son of George Boleyn Dean of Lichfield (1535 – 1603) who in turn was possible son of George Boleyn 2nd Viscount Rochford (1503 – 1536). I acknowledge that’s a lot of suppositions, especially since I have seen no primary sources that may confirm these, yet I mention them as they seem a starting point.
Anna’s mother was supposedly Joan Van Buren (reputedly born 1565 in the Netherlands, the daughter of
Adolf Van Buren (1542 – 1572), although again primary sources seem elusive.
As questionable as Anna Bullein’s ancestor being George Boleyn 2nd Viscount Rochford, there seem to be quiet reputable sources stating kinship to Anne Boleyn, wife of Henry VIII and consequently to Queen Elizabeth I.
There is also a supposed connection to Mary & Elizabeth Bullyn whose tombstone was found near Clonony Castle. As I’m sure you are aware their father was supposedly a Thomas Bullyn, whose father was a George Boleyn (possibly also Dean of Lichfield), whose father as aforementioned was possibly George Boleyn 2nd Viscount Rochford. If the above suppositions are correct this would make Anna Bullein cousin to Mary & Elizabeth Bullyn, not sisters as some have supposed as at:
http://wc.rootsweb.ancestry.co…..;id=I75173
Here are the sources I’ve found showing Anna Bulein’s kinship to Queen Anne Boleyn and /or Queen Elizabeth I:
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA248 mentioning her as great niece to Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA201 similarly as great niece to Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..na+Bullein as collateral descendant of Queen Anne Boleyn
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..;pg=PA1167 Anna Bullen as great niece of Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA179 Anna Bullen as great niece of Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA484 Anne Boleyn as great niece of Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA612 Anne Boleyn as near relation to Queen Elizabeth
http://www.aughty.org/pdf/macc…..madden.pdf Anna Bullyn or Bullen kinswoman of Queen Elizabeth
Although the term great niece is used, this must be a simplification of cumbersome terms such as, first cousin twice removed etc. It seems astonishing to me that these mostly reputable sources state the kinship, but nowhere state the precise connection?
With regards to the Bullyn sisters they are also mentioned as cousin twice removed (ref. below), and if correct making Anna Bullein a sister or first cousin:
https://archive.org/stream/jst…..5/mode/1up
Well, hopefully this new topic will launch a lively discussion and I look forward to contributions which may unravel these mysteries.
Kind regards,
Jeff Angus
2:14 am
January 3, 2012
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I think it’s highly unlikely the the George Boleyn (Dean of Litchfield) you have mentioned could possibly be George Boleyn (Rochford) Son. Since there has been no mention of any children between him and Jane. I believe the Dean of Litchfield was at best a cousin or something.
He could have been the son of either William or Edward Boleyn, who were the sons of William Boleyn, who was the son of Geoffrey Boleyn
I can’t find out much about the Younger William or Edward Boleyn, other than Edward had married Anne Tempest.
Their Elder brother of course being Thomas Boleyn..
I hope this will be of use.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
3:04 am
November 18, 2010
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Jeff Angus said
Anna’s father was supposedly George Bullein or Boleyn (reputedly living 1559 – 1606) and possible son of George Boleyn Dean of Lichfield (1535 – 1603) who in turn was possible son of George Boleyn 2nd Viscount Rochford (1503 – 1536). I acknowledge that’s a lot of suppositions, especially since I have seen no primary sources that may confirm these, yet I mention them as they seem a starting point.
Jeff Angus
Bonjour et bienvenue Jeff.
To be honest I can’t believe that George Boleyn, Dean of Lichfield was the son of George and Jane. If he was, then Jane would have mentioned his existantance to Thomas Cromwell when she was asking/begging for his aid following the excution of George in 1536.
Had the Dean been a legitimate heir, then he would have lost his inheritance twice ..Once when his father was executed nad the second time following his mother’s execution.
If this George was an illegitimate child, then keeping the Boleyn name post 1536 was a risky thing to do. And since Thomas never mentioned a natural child of George in his will, I’m of the optinion that the George who was tha Dean of Lichfield was a cousin of some degree of remove from Thomas Boleyn, Earl of Wiltshire and his immediate family.
It's always bunnies.
3:29 am
January 22, 2014
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Boleyn said
I think it’s highly unlikely the the George Boleyn (Dean of Litchfield) you have mentioned could possibly be George Boleyn (Rochford) Son. Since there has been no mention of any children between him and Jane. I believe the Dean of Litchfield was at best a cousin or something.
Thanks for your suggesions, and I will look further into your possible fathers of the Dean of Lichfield. I myself have doubts about George Boleyn 2nd Viscount Rochford having a son by Jane Parker, but maybe there is a possibility of an illegitimate son, who as some have discussed, was secreted away as a child (remembering the apparent then hostility to the Boleyns), who later became Dean of Lichfield. The references below propose this possibility:
https://archive.org/stream/jst…..5/mode/1up as “not improbably the son of George Boleyn, Viscount Rochford”
http://db.theclergydatabase.or…..onID=24898 “Perhaps s. of George, Lord Rochford. B. in London”
Also, if George Boleyn 2nd Viscount Rochford had no son named George (albeit not necessarily Dean of Lichfield), then the inscription on the Bullyn Tomb, referring to Elizabeth and Mary Bullyn as grand daughters of “George Bullyn Viscount Rochford” would also have to be incorrect.
I have seen a number of arguments as to why the Dean of Lichfield is not considered a likely son of the George Boleyn Viscount Rochford, and those I have seen argue that this is because Thomas Boleyn Earl of Ormond as father of George Boleyn Viscount Rochford would have taken care of any grandson’s education, but I would answer how much better could he have taken care of his possibly illegitimate grandson’s education than to hide him away in some clerical facility from whence he could emerge later from Trinity Hall, Cambridge University with a number of degrees and finally aspire to Dean of Lichfield.
I have seen other references stating that modern historians think it unlikely that the Dean of Lichfield could be son of George Boleyn Viscount Rochford, but I have not seen who these historians are or what their reasons are. They may well be right, but I have not found their reasons or seen their primary sources, so I have to consider the possibility, until I see the info’.
Kind regards,
Jeff Angus
4:03 am
January 22, 2014
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Anyanka said
To be honest I can’t believe that George Boleyn, Dean of Lichfield was the son of George and Jane. If he was, then Jane would have mentioned his existantance to Thomas Cromwell when she was asking/begging for his aid following the excution of George in 1536.
Had the Dean been a legitimate heir, then he would have lost his inheritance twice ..Once when his father was executed nad the second time following his mother’s execution.
As stated in another reply, I agree it is unlikely that George was a legitimate son and accept these arguments hold merit.
If this George was an illegitimate child, then keeping the Boleyn name post 1536 was a risky thing to do. And since Thomas never mentioned a natural child of George in his will, I’m of the optinion that the George who was tha Dean of Lichfield was a cousin of some degree of remove from Thomas Boleyn, Earl of Wiltshire and his immediate family.
I agree it would be risky initially, because even the Dean in his will admits only that he is kinsman of Lord Hunsdon, who was grandson of Mary, eldest daughter of Sir Thomas Boleyn, father of the ill-fated Viscount Rochford. Note this relationship doesn’t contradict his possible descent from Viscount Rochford, but obscures it sufficiently. Wrath against all Boleyn’s could not have been universal or for too long, as Queen Elizabeth I, “would have made him bishop of Worcester” (The Dictionary of National Biography, Vol 2, 1921–1922 linked in my initial reply above) and referred to him by her as “My Cousin” despite his Boleyn surname.
5:27 am
January 22, 2014
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Jeff Angus said
Boleyn said
I myself have doubts about George Boleyn 2nd Viscount Rochford having a son by Jane Parker, but maybe there is a possibility of an illegitimate son, who as some have discussed, was secreted away as a child (remembering the apparent then hostility to the Boleyns), who later became Dean of Lichfield. The references below propose this possibility:
https://archive.org/stream/jst…..5/mode/1up as “not improbably the son of George Boleyn, Viscount Rochford”
http://db.theclergydatabase.or…..onID=24898 “Perhaps s. of George, Lord Rochford. B. in London”Sorry that first link should have been https://en.wikisource.org/wiki…..28DNB00%29
A more up to date version of The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, that castes doubt on the Dean of Lichfield’s being a son of George, Viscount Rochford is at:
http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/…..ticle/2794
1:59 pm
January 3, 2012
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It’s not inprobable to think that perhaps George may have fathered a few bastard children, along the way, but for the Dean of Litchfield to use the Boleyn surname surely that would mean he would have had to agree that the child was his, anyway? If that was the case then the child would be entitled, or should I say the mother would be entitled to claim some money from the Boleyn family for him after George was executed.
I think you are looking in the wrong place for the Dean’s father.. I’m inclined to think it’s more likely to be a cousin or even a second cousin from the brothers I mentioned in my first post.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
2:10 am
January 22, 2014
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Jeff Angus said
Here are the sources I’ve found showing Anna Bullein’s kinship to Queen Anne Boleyn and /or Queen Elizabeth I:
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA248 mentioning her as great niece to Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA201 similarly as great niece to Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..na+Bullein as collateral descendant of Queen Anne Boleyn
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..;pg=PA1167 Anna Bullen as great niece of Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA179 Anna Bullen as great niece of Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA484 Anne Boleyn as great niece of Queen Elizabeth
http://books.google.co.nz/book…..8;pg=PA612 Anne Boleyn as near relation to Queen Elizabeth
http://www.aughty.org/pdf/macc…..madden.pdf Anna Bullyn or Bullen kinswoman of Queen Elizabeth
Another reference gives “Anna Bullein as grand-niece to Queen Anne Boleyn” at:
https://archive.org/stream/des…..8/mode/1up
And in the footnote at:
https://archive.org/stream/des…..1/mode/1up
it states “She is called ‘Consanguinea Reginae.’ [female blood relative of the Queen]
Tradition makes her a grand-niece. I have not traced the connection. The T.C.D.
M.S. calls her “Proneptis Eliz : Regine Anglie.” This cannot
be right. The introduction of “Eliz:” is, I suspect, a clerical
error. “
2:44 am
January 22, 2014
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Jeff Angus said
Anna’s mother was supposedly Joan Van Buren (reputedly born 1565 in the Netherlands, the daughter of
Adolf Van Buren (1542 – 1572), although again primary sources seem elusive.
Since my first post I have found the following sources for the marriage of George Bolin & Joan Burgin [Buryin] on 25 Apr 1592 at St Andrew, Plymouth, Devon:
“England Marriages, 1538–1973” at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2S1-68N
“England, Devon, Parish Registers”, 1538-1912 at https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/KC9Z-9Y5
“Plymouth Marriage Register Transcription”, p40 at:
http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=gbprs%2fm%2f35176106%2f1&highlights=%22%22 where paid membership is required and where the original parish register image is at:
http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=gbprs%2fply%2f004634280%2f00041&parentid=gbprs%2fm% 2f35176106%2f1
At the same site there is also a record in “Boyd’s Marriage Index 1538-1840 Transcription” at:
http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=gbprs%2fm%2f751337630%2f1&highlights=%22%22
Kind regards,
Jeff Angus
1:50 am
January 22, 2014
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As I have mentioned elsewhere, but I summarise here from a different perspective, Anna Bullein’s ( Abt.1606 – 1650) husband’s (Sir Robert Newcomen, 4th Baronet, 1596–1667) aunt Jane Molyneux (nee Usher 1582–1674) had for a period, one Mrs Bullen living with them at Newlands, Longford, Ireland. Speaking of Jane, it was said as at:
https://books.google.co.nz/boo…..38;pg=PA21
“…she was a very religious and devout woman, and had been singularly careful in the education of her children, for which purpose she was so happy as to have Mrs. Mary Bullen, (who was also related to Henry the eighth’s Queen, as she happened afterwards to be Lady Paisley,) for some time in her house, at Newland [Longford, Ireland] for instructing her young children and daughters …(Capel Molyneux et al, p21)”
Anna Bullein, we understand, was born in Kenagh (or Keenagh aka Mosstown), Longford and married Sir Robert Newcomen there in 1626 and given her husband’s relationship to his aunt Jane and proximity, it is not difficult to imagine that Anna was probably acquainted with this Mrs. Mary Bullen. She could even be Anna’s aunt or perhaps even Anna’s mother. Of course it is more likely that it was Mrs. Mary Bullen’s first husband surnamed Bullen, that had the relationship to Queen Anne.
Although I value genuine academic scepticism, I also know the value of the theory of ‘Colligation of Facts’, which is the practice of bringing together, lining up and finding links between disparate facts under a consistent overarching theory. When we consider that we now have evidence of four women (albeit two Bullyn sisters), Anna Bullein, and the above mentioned Mrs Mary Bullen, all having claims to ‘descent’ from Queen Anne Boleyn’s family, contemporaneous, all living in Ireland and all possibly linked through family connections, surely there are enough pieces of a puzzle to warrant setting aside all non-academic scepticism (doubt without robust reason for doubt) to proceed toward a proper historical study to see if more can be found.
Citation:
‘An account of the family and descendants of Sir T. Molyneux, Kt, Chancellor of the Exchequer in Ireland. [With a memorial of the life of W. Molyneux; an autobiography. Edited by Sir T. Phillipps, Bart.]’ by Sir Capel MOLYNEUX and Sir Thomas PHILLIPPS.
