Avatar
Please consider registering
guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed Topic RSSsp_TopicIcon
Anne's Last Words
December 16, 2011
2:40 pm
Avatar
Melissa
New York City
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 162
Member Since:
July 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Hey guys.  I've been approaching Anne Boleyn's famous scaffold speech from an actor's perspective lately and am getting a bit hung up.  She says she won't say anything about the charges she was condemned upon, but instead “I pray God save the king and send him long to reign over you, for a gentler nor a more merciful prince was there never, and to me he was ever a good, a gentle, and a sovereign lord.”  What do you all make of this?

The answer I know I'll get is “conventional;” that is, that Anne died with the same words on her lips that other condemned traitors did.  You simply couldn't go to the block with bad stuff to say about the king without your loved ones feeling the repercussions.  Yet, as an actor, the person playing Anne (hereafter referred to as “I” or “me” lol) needs to make that line mean something.  Does she believe it?  Is she truly looking back at her life and realizing her luck isn't Henry's fault; that he's actually been great to her?  Or does she detest him and blame him for the place she finds herself in, so that the words would be spoken with irony?  OR, is it a third thing-that she no longer even wanted to think about the situation and just recited conventional praises of the king with no feeling or inflection at all?  How would all this square with the reports that she “was never more beautiful” and seemed “happy to die” and “glad in death?”  

As I mentioned, I started this query from an acting standpoint, and thus it is important to me how the character Anne Boleyn in the novel Wolf Hall felt, but it really got me thinking about the person Anne Boleyn and how she really felt and would have delivered the line.  Unfortunately, to my point of view I tend toward my last scenario; that she rehearsed the line and said it without feeling, which of course as an actor is exactly how I do NOT want to do it.  She either really means it or really means the opposite.  Or she doesn't!  What do you guys think?

Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne.

December 16, 2011
8:04 pm
Avatar
Impish_Impulse
US Midwest
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 595
Member Since:
August 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Maybe she chose to blame Cromwell for misleading Henry because thinking that the man she loved would have her so summarily disposed of was too painful to contemplate? I’d play it with a subtle flash of anger towards Cromwell before saying that, and have her say the words wistfully, as if she really wants to believe they are true, and that deceiving herself at the end will allow her to die with some peace instead of anger and betrayal.

Is it possible to ad lib a scene of Anne in the Tower musing over her downfall and how Henry could have betrayed her so, and then blaming Cromwell for it all? Make it obvious that she’s indulging in self-deception (or is she?) because she still loves Henry and doesn’t want to believe he would have her killed unjustly. Maybe if you get the part, you can suggest something like this to make the audience believe her scaffold speech was self-deceptive, as that would increase the audience’s sympathy for Anne.

                        survivor ribbon                             

               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

December 16, 2011
9:32 pm
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I guess she could of made a bit of a scene and told everyone how she was really feeling (which would've of been fantastic!) but i'm sure she was told that her speech should be short and simple and maybe she felt it was best to just keep the drama away for her last moments and not bring up the bad things. Maybe our sharp tongued Anne really just wanted life over with and to go peacefully without any fuss. I mean, yeah, if she had addressed the charges and whether they were truth of false maybe people would know without a doubt whether she was quilty or innocent and we wouldn't have to question that fact ever but thats not what happend. Me, personally, i believe she was innocent and so do most of you guys but theres always that small percent chance that maybe she was quilty or whatever.

Saying her actual speech but putting that deep emotional meaning into is great like in The Other Boleyn Girl, Natalie Portman was tearing up and she got all choked up and it made me start crying even though I hate hate hate The Other Boleyn Girl but I love Natalie and I love Anne. In The Tudors though, Natalie Dormer kind of went through her speech without much emotion and then when she knelt down she started to cry a little and that was very emotional to me because Anne was the star of that show and watching her die on TV made me think of Anne Boleyn's actual death and how it must of felt to her.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

December 17, 2011
1:11 am
Avatar
E
Member
Banned
Forum Posts: 256
Member Since:
May 19, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

She had to say those words to protect her little daughter Elizabeth. Eric Ives says that it was what she left unsaid which told of her innocence-  she never admitted to guilt. Part of her speech was: “If any of you should meddle in my cause, I require them to judge the best”. Basically, ” Ok. Im here to die, not because of any wrong doing but because the King requires me to do so.” Due to the late night visits of the King to the seymour, most everyone knew that Anne was innocent. Even her enemy Chapuys the Spanish ambassador..

I think in her pauses within the speech, what she did not say, her looks to the crowd as she was speaking and of course the above, Anne was was proclaiming her innocence.

I'm very envious by the way- do our Queen justice & break a leg for me Smile

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

December 17, 2011
12:05 pm
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yeah ^

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

December 18, 2011
1:39 pm
Avatar
Melissa
New York City
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 162
Member Since:
July 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Yeah, E, I think the pauses would be where the actual emotion comes through, since she couldn't really say what she actually meant (possibly) and so subtext is everything.  As far as what Impish said, I like the idea that Anne blamed Cromwell and thus the subtext of all the good stuff said about Henry is actually that Cromwell is not “good, gentle, and sovereign.”  I don't like Natalie Portman's performance (nor anything else about TOBG, save maybe the costumes) at her execution, since Anne Boleyn allegedly died with great dignity and Portman made her go like a blubbering fool.  (Ok that was kind of harsh.  Her Anne's death wasn't entirely without dignity but definitely didn't match how I picture the actual event.  Natalie Portman's acting was not her best, but was one of the best things about that movie.)  Natalie Dormer was closer to how I want to play it but obviously there would have to be differences.  Natalie Portman's Anne was expecting to be delivered from death and is bitterly disappointed in her final moments; Natalie Dormer's Anne still seems to have a slight hope of being saved but seems more concerned with 'pulling herself together' and making a good end.  Another great Anne, Genevieve Bujold, goes to the scaffold seeming more defiant and introspective (“it is May…”).  So there are soooooo many ways to play Anne's end.  I wonder how Anne herself actually felt.

Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne.

December 18, 2011
11:58 pm
Avatar
E
Member
Banned
Forum Posts: 256
Member Since:
May 19, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

She was calm, and ready. She was to die a martyr. Anne was theatrical- she would make her last performance one which would be remembered and played every inch the Queen. Imagine- for her, she was the first Anointed Queen of England to be executed. Eleanor of Aquitaine had been unfaithful to Henry II and plotted with her sons against him, she was incarcerated yes, but never killed. Anne and everyone at the time, actually there or at court or in France or Spain- everyone who heard of the event- knew that it was momentous and she was an innocent woman being put to death. Henry had become a tyrant..

I imagine Anne was resigned and happy to die, reports say “The Lady takes much joy in death” I think this was from Kingston… I believe she spent much time in prayer and meditation perhaps reaching an altered state of mind through shock and the same; thus leading to a deep sense of calm and the reports that state she had never looked so beautiful.

"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"

December 19, 2011
7:39 pm
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I don't blame her either, she had gone through alot and at the time i guess death seemed like a huge relief.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

December 22, 2011
9:31 am
Avatar
Sophie1536
Lincolnshire UK
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 306
Member Since:
January 17, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I think Anne pretty much said what was expected of a person about to be executed in that era and of course she wouldn't have wanted Elizabeth or her family to suffer anymore by anything she said or did. I have the feeling she just wanted to get on with it.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh144/nicksbabe28/Backstreet%20n%20Graffix/Image4-1.jpg

December 22, 2011
11:28 am
Avatar
Anne fan
Leicestershire
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 123
Member Since:
February 10, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anne died 'boldly' according to the records. She didn't make any protestations of innocence, which would be unthinkable to the 16th Century mind – and could have had implications for Elizabeth – but, rebel to the end, she didn't admit her guilt either, which is what was expected at the time. According to eyewitnesses she had a 'goodly, smiling countenance' so no tears or blubbing. She also kept looking behind her – there's a difference of opinion as to whether she was expecting a reprieve (how Natalie Dormer played it) or that she was worried the headsman would strike before she was ready. No block because it was a sword and not an axe. Also, she hadn't slept much.

 

When I wrote about her execution I had her asking Henry whether she was mocking him – 'to me he was ever a good and gentle sovereign lord' combined with a glance at the executioner speaks volumes!

 

Good luck with it – is it stage or film?

December 22, 2011
1:20 pm
Avatar
Sharon
Binghamton, NY
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2114
Member Since:
February 24, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

 I think bold and defiant is the way Anne was that day.  Unapologetic, with no tears, and ready to meet her fate.  She was careful, however, not to say anything that might bring Henry's wrath down on Elizabeth. Anne had given up all earthly cares and she was ready to meet her end.  I can't see her crying in front of those people. When Anne was looking back, I think she was making sure the swordsman didn't do his job until she was finished saying what she had to say.

December 29, 2011
12:19 pm
Avatar
Melissa
New York City
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 162
Member Since:
July 9, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Anne fan, you are spot-on about the lack of sleep! I had completely forgotten that Anne stayed up all night praying and thus was probably in an altered state somewhat.  Probably in a very religious frame of mind too, so I wonder if she would've been ironic when praising Henry or if she actually forgave him before she passed. 

Ainsi sera, groigne qui groigne.

December 29, 2011
6:23 pm
Avatar
Anyanka
La Belle Province
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2333
Member Since:
November 18, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Personally, I think she had forgiven Henry and all those who had plotted against her. After all, she was going to be with her saviour and would have wanted to stand before Him in her innocence and forgiveness as a good Christian .

Anne would have confessed her sins and asked for divine forgiveness. She had asked Lady Kingston to take a message to Lady Mary confessing Anne's wrongdoing to both Mary and her mother. Anne wanted to leave with no reprecussions to her family for the future.

 

I think that in her last days, she came to realise what it meant to be a queen. Not just the banquets and masques but the sacrifice of self that was required.

It's always bunnies.

December 30, 2011
5:47 pm
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

If i were in her spot, of course i'd be scared (what's not scary about the thought of your head being removed from your body???!!!) but i'd also be worrying endlessly about Elizabeth and what lays ahead for her and how the situation will affect her. Honestly, it would of been completely awsome if she did declare her innocence in those last few minutes but i still like the way she said her last words, i don't know it's like she forgot about all the bad lies and just wanted it all to be over. It was….very classy and elegant of her.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

January 4, 2012
6:48 am
Avatar
Anne fan
Leicestershire
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 123
Member Since:
February 10, 2010
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

By not declaring her guilt, she declared her innocence – she submitted to her execution rather than confessing it was deserved. She had also insisted on taking the holy sacrament publicly and swore on it that she was innocent of the accusations against her (that doesn't mean she wasn't guilty of other sins!) it's difficult to see now how incredibly important that was in the 16th Century.

 

But Mye-Elise is right, it was a very classy end. It was also incredibly brave – another thing to remember is that it was very public, I haven't got Ives to hand at the moment but I think there were a couple of thousand spectators? 

 

I think death may have been a relief too – her life had crumbled around her and her beloved brother George and some of the courtiers she knew best had died less than 48 hours before. So I think there may have been a lightness to her speech – she doesn't mention what she's accused of, she doesn't speak against the law that's condemned her, she just asks people to judge the best if they look at her case. The fact that nearly 500 years on we can debate whether she'd actually forgiven Henry or spoke ironically probably explains why we all find her so fascinating! But Anyanka is right in that forgiving your enemies would have been seen as part of preparing for a good death.

January 5, 2012
8:27 am
Avatar
Boleyn
Kent.
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 2285
Member Since:
January 3, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

According to wikipedia her last words were:

Good Christian people, I am come hither to die, for according to the law, and by the law I am judged to die, and therefore I will speak nothing against it. I am come hither to accuse no man, nor to speak anything of that, whereof I am accused and condemned to die, but I pray God save the king and send him long to reign over you, for a gentler nor a more merciful prince was there never: and to me he was ever a good, a gentle and sovereign lord. And if any person will meddle of my cause, I require them to judge the best. And thus I take my leave of the world and of you all, and I heartily desire you all to pray for me. O Lord have mercy on me, to God I commend my soul.
 
Alledgely she continued to say O Lord have mercy on me, to God I commend my soul, until the sword severed her head in mid sentence. It has also been said that when her head was picked up and shown to the crowd, her lips and eyes were said to be still moving.. Did she see the crowd at that moment?
 
It has also been speculated on what position she was in when she was executed? Was she knelt with her head on the block or knelt in an upright position.. Personally I think she was in the upright position, either way she must have been terrified, as there must have been a second when she actually saw the sword comming towards her.. I think that it would have been practically impossible for her head to be severed on the block by the sword as the angle would be all wrong, and the swordsman would have had to knelt down too, and then he wouldn't have had enough power or room to be able to cut Anne's head off cleanly with one stroke.
 
There are a couple of questions I always wondered: Why execute Anne with a sword? and Who suggested it?
I've heard it said that Henry in a rage suggested it, as he stated that she was more French then English so let her die as a French person.
But then another rumour says that Anne asked for the sword as she feared that the axe would be too clumsy and she wanted to die in one clean stroke..
 
I think that she suggested the sword, as the axe could and was at times unreliable, and it could sometimes take 2 or maybe 3 strokes to remove the head. The Duke of Monmouth Charles 2nd's bastard son) took I believe 4 strokes to die and even then the executioner had to finish him off with a knife.
I think Mary Queen of Scots death took 3 strokes too? Margaret Pole's death was particulary gory as she was just hacked to pieces.. 

Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod

January 5, 2012
9:53 am
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

I've never heard about Anne being in any other position then knelt upright because of the fact she was executed with a sword. If she was to be beheaded with an axe then i'm assuming a block would've been used. The sword is more accurate hence the 'little neck' remark Anne made about the 'very good' swordsman and the block wouldn't be needed. Also, I've always read that Henry chose the French swordsman in a last act of “kindness” towards Anne, since she liked France and the French so much and since she had spent a majority of her life there.

About the speech too, i've heard maybe 2 or 3 versions and i've always leaned towards the Boleyn typed above. And when Natalie Dormer whispered the 'Jesus have mercy on me, to God I commend my soul' i always always start crying like a baby.

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

January 5, 2012
10:00 pm
Avatar
Impish_Impulse
US Midwest
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 595
Member Since:
August 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Despite the scene in The Tudors, she was blindfolded, so wouldn't have seen the sword coming. She was hyper-aware of the sounds the swordsman made behind her, though, and turned her head towards any sound made. He came up with the deception of calling across the scaffold for his sword, so she would turn her head and be in the proper position for a clean stroke, and so that she wouldn't expect the stroke so soon. This might have been his habit, as he had made a point of hiding the sword in the straw at his feet before knowing that she would turn her head toward any noise. Maybe this was common behavior of the condemned, and him recognizing that and having a solution was one of the reasons he was considered the best swordsman available, able to command hefty fees for his services.

I don't think it was recorded whose idea it was to go with a sword instead of an axe. I don't believe it was Anne, though, as the swordsman was hired and on his way to England before her trial ever started. Maybe it was Henry attempting some of that famed Tudor spin control, countering the killing of his wife with the “mercy” of granting her a less brutal death. Maybe he feared the spectacle a botched execution would cause. But he knew how he would kill her before the trial, and yet left Anne hanging in suspense for several days wondering whether she would be burned alive or beheaded. And due to a prior “prophecy” of a Queen of England being burned at about this time period, Anne seemed to think this referred to her. Henry knew that as well, so it was especially cruel to leave her in ignorance of her means of execution.

Elizabeth was the one determined to ask for a swordsman instead of the axe if Mary had allowed her to be condemned to death, so she could die as her mother did. When guards came to remove her from her rooms in the Tower on the 18th anniversary of her mother's execution, she must have been terrified that Mary had chosen this day to execute her, too. Instead, she was “released” to house arrest and the most dangerous time of her life would soon be ending.

                        survivor ribbon                             

               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

January 6, 2012
10:59 am
Avatar
Mya Elise
Ohio,US
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 781
Member Since:
May 16, 2011
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Never heard about Elizabeth wanting a swordsman if Mary executed her but thats actually oddly heartwarming to know she wanted to be like her mother in that way…

• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.

January 7, 2012
9:02 pm
Avatar
Impish_Impulse
US Midwest
Member
Members
Forum Posts: 595
Member Since:
August 12, 2009
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Very brave of her when she was expecting to be killed at any moment. She never got over that terror, and years into her reign was still composing prayers of thanks that God had delivered her “from the prison to the palace”.

                        survivor ribbon                             

               "Don't knock at death's door. 

          Ring the bell and run. He hates that."    

Forum Timezone: Europe/London
Most Users Ever Online: 214
Currently Online:
Guest(s) 1
Top Posters:
Anyanka: 2333
Boleyn: 2285
Sharon: 2114
Bella44: 933
DuchessofBrittany: 846
Mya Elise: 781
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1
Members: 425807
Moderators: 0
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 1
Forums: 13
Topics: 1681
Posts: 22777
Newest Members:
suki60, WaverlyScott, Edwards Harlie, laylataylor, King1Landyn
Administrators: Claire: 958