I liked Genevieve's accent too, in some words she'd roll her tongue and it didn't sound quite like French but it was still neat sounding.

Elliemarianna said:

Mya Elise said:

I liked Genevieve’s accent too, in some words she’d roll her tongue and it didn’t sound quite like French but it was still neat sounding.

I think Genevieve’s French Canadian?

Yes, Ms. Bujold is from Montreal, Quebec. She has the perfect (for me, at least) accent for Anne Boleyn!

Sharon..

Margaret Douglas and Thomas Boleyn.. Hmm that's a real brain twister. I know that Margaret Douglas was a bit of a scallywag, and gave Henry a few headaches with her antics. But would he really want his niece married to the father of 2 traitors for want of a better word? After all whatever else Margaret was she was of Royal blood, and in those days, despite Henry marrying 4 commoners, it was really considered a bit indecent and improper that someone of Royal blood should marry below their station. As we know Margaret Douglas was eventually married to Lord Darnley, and became the dreaded mother in Law and Aunt of Mary Queen of Scots. She believed or chose to believe that Mary was responsible for her son's Murder, although they were reconciled in later life so I believe.. 

Maybe that was the reason why Henry disinherited his sister Margaret, because after the death of James 1V she married Archibald Douglas 6th Earl of Angus, and then divorced him, and married again shortly after to Henry Stewart. I know Henry was rather peeved at this, but I actually find his attitude towards his sister at this time rather hypocrital and laughable, as at the time of Margaret's divorce and re-marriage, he himself was in the middle of a pitched battle with the Pope to annul his marriage to Catherine of Aragon.

So why he should have punished her in this way seems a very strange thing to do, and what is more is that although Margaret (sister) did divorce Archibald Douglas, for what ever reason, she did at least choose someone who had some status and breeding. Anne after was really only a knights daughter, until Henry raised her and her family up to the peerage. Although Margaret was disinherited by Henry, she had the last laugh, as it was her great grandson that inherited the throne, after Elizabeth's death in 1603.  

Actually it's intresting to note that only 3 of Henry's wives were actually of the peerage. Catherine of Aragon, self explainatory, Anne because Henry raised her up to the peerage, and Anne of Cleves again self explanatory.

 Jane Seymour although Queen by marriage was never crowned as such so didn't really have Royal status as such and it could be argued she was just Jane Seymour at her death.

Catherine Howard well she wasn't really anything more than Lady Catherine Howard (daughter of the disgraced Lord Lisle, disgraced being the operative word) to start with anyway and went to the block as Lady Catherine Howard, although it has been debated that she was in fact still classed as Queen, and her last words do seem to echo this, as I believe Crammer couldn't rubber stamp the paper to completely dissolve her rights and title of Queen prior to her execution.

Catherine Parr again was just Lady Catherine Parr, and although given the titles and rights of a Queen was not crowned and due to her what was considered indecent haste in marrying Thomas seymour so shortly after Henry died, she was I believe stripped of the title of Queen Dowager, at Edward Seymour's wife's insistance, because she and her husband were named as guardians of Little King Edward so in effect became his de facto parents, and she  simply became Lady Catherine Seymour, but it is strange however that on her tomb at Sudley Castle she is named as Catherine Parr, wife to Thomas Seymour.

Anyway plenty to chew on here, for you all to draw your own conclusions too. The things I have expressed here are purely an opinion of the may and may not be true things that happened.. I think that between us all with the opinions expressed by each individual we could well be getting to somewhere near the truth of the twists and turns of Tudor Court intriques and Politics.. 

Boleyn said:

Catherine Howard well she wasn’t really anything more than Lady Catherine Howard (daughter of the disgraced Lord Lisle, disgraced being the operative word) to start with anyway and went to the block as Lady Catherine Howard, although it has been debated that she was in fact still classed as Queen, and her last words do seem to echo this, as I believe Crammer couldn’t rubber stamp the paper to completely dissolve her rights and title of Queen prior to her execution.

Lord Lisle, Arthur Plantagent was the step-father of Anne and Catherine Bassett. He was also the uncle of H8 as he was the illegitimate son of Edward IV. Lisle was the Lord Deputy of Calais before being arrested of treason but he died shortly after being pardoned.

KH’s father was Lord Edmund Howard. He was given the post of Controller of Calais due to the intervention of Anne Boleyn.

Six Wives by David Starkey

Anyanka said:

Boleyn said:

Catherine Howard well she wasn't really anything more than Lady Catherine Howard (daughter of the disgraced Lord Lisle, disgraced being the operative word) to start with anyway and went to the block as Lady Catherine Howard, although it has been debated that she was in fact still classed as Queen, and her last words do seem to echo this, as I believe Crammer couldn't rubber stamp the paper to completely dissolve her rights and title of Queen prior to her execution.

 

Lord Lisle, Arthur Plantagent was the step-father of Anne and Catherine Bassett. He was also the uncle of H8 as he was the illegitimate son of Edward IV. Lisle was the Lord Deputy of Calais before being arrested of treason but he died shortly after being pardoned.

 

KH's father was Lord Edmund Howard. He was given the post of Controller of Calais due to the intervention of Anne Boleyn.

 

Six Wives by David Starkey

Thank you Ayanka:

I stand corrected.. I thought that Edmund Howard was created Lord Lisle for some bizarre reason after the death of Arthur Plantagent.. Brain must have gone on holiday again!! Anyway It is alledged that he was sent home or ordered to return home from Calais, and probably got a bit of an earhole bashing from Henry for making a complete dog's breakfast of being controller of Calais.. Either way what ever happened, Edmund Howard died in 1539.

Actually it's intresting to note that Anne was responsible for getting Edmund the post. I wonder why?

I guess Anne must have felt some sort of compassion for want of a better word, that because of Edmund's spend drift ways, the family were suffering so perhaps she felt that if he had a steady income etc.. his family could at least live as befitted their status? After they were all of the Howard clan and it probably didn't look too good in Anne's eyes that her Uncle and his family were damn near destitute. Hmm yet another mystery? 

Katherine uncle Thomas Howard, really had little to nothing to do, with Edmund and his family so I believe, and only really became interested in Katherine, as a kind of tool to use to try and control Henry, well that's my opinion anyway..

I also had another thought about Katherine, and it's a real long shot here. But when Henry became interested in Anne Katherine was really quite young. At Thomas Howard's insistance she was picked again for a want of a better word to be placed in her Grandmother's household to be educated etc.. We know what happened there.

But was it just possible that Thomas Howard had plans for Katherine even at the age she was..

Now folks please bear with me on this one..

Anne was with the King, but not yet married to him, when Katherine was sent to live with her Grandmother. We don't really know her actual year of birth, and it's been argued that she was born between 1518 and 1524. Anyway we can be sure that she was quite young, If for the sake of arguement we place her birth at 1520, she would have been about 7 or 8, when she went to her grandmother's house, making that 1527. Now then as we know Henry married Anne in 1533, Making Katherine 13, and of course we know that around that time, Mannox was also in the household of Katherine's Grandmother. Anne had Elizabeth in 1533, so of course it meant that she was capable of bearing children, Anne had probably another 10 or more years left for childbearing, again we are uncertain to how old Anne actually was too, some say she was still in her 20's when executed others say she was well into her 30's, we will never know the truth about that as Birth records at that time were very rare, and it was usually only the first born children's date of birth that were actually registered, Generally it was said that subsequent children were born in the Summer,Winter Spring or Autumn and that was it. If we take Catherine's age at being 16 when Anne was executed, she would have been considered as marriagable, so why wasn't she married or even betrothed by then?

Right this is what I think.If Anne wasn't executed and was still Queen she would have had her hands full by being pregnant almost every year, so therefore not able to have sex. Is it just possible that Thomas Howard had an idea to make Katherine Henry's Mistress? therefore keeping control of the King? With 2 Boleyn/Howard woman either side of him Thomas could more or less rule the kingdom? Remember that Thomas himself was decended from Thomas of Brotherton, a title given to him by his half brother Edward 2nd after the death without issue of Roger Bigod in, 1312.  When Thomas of Brotherton died the title passed to his daughter Margaret and at her death it passed to her Grandson Thomas Mowbray, therefore making his claim to the throne a lot stronger than Henry's being that he   was the grandson of Edmund Tudor, who was the Half Brother of Henry 6th. Henry 7th, re-wrote the history books claiming that he was decended from the Welsh King Cadwaller. Therefore saying that Thomas Howard is decended from Edward 1st but so what my lineage is older so I have more right.. Bear in mind I believe that Henry was named bastard in Edward 1V reign do to the fact that Henry's father was also declared a bastard. Hmm it's certainly an odd one that's for sure.. Even Henry's Grandmother had a very tenuious grasp on the throne as she was decended from John of Gaunt from his third marriage to Katherine Swynford. In which I believe the children from that marriage were considered bastards being born whilst John of Gaunt was still married to Constance of Castille, however I think they were legitimised by Henry 4th when he ousted Richard 2nd and took the throne 1399, but were excluded from inheriting the throne.. It's a very tangled mess really 

We all know that Thomas Howard was ambtious, but at the same time knew his place and was grateful, however his son Henry Howard had trouble with keeping his mouth shut about the fact his claim stronger to the throne than Henry's and therefore lost his head in 1547, shortly before Henry's death..

Anyway once again I've given you all a lot to think about and mull over. Once again This is purely an opinion I may be right or wrong, but there are some valid points that could be argued here..