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1:47 pm
May 16, 2011
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This is basically a what if…post.
What do you think would of happened if Anne had a son the second time she was pregnant? Elizabeth is still a baby, Anne gives birth to a healthy plump baby boy.
Whenever i imagine what the boy would've looked like i think dark brown hair like his mother, blue eyes like his father, exceptionally tall for a young boy, and the face…a perfect mix between Henry VIII & Anne Boleyn.
I think Henry would've kept Anne as a wife but still being the spoiled man he was, he would've gotten mistresses. But since he got a son he probably would have thought the marriage was lawful, no bewitching blah blah blah. And Anne wouldn't of died. The only great thing that wouldn't of happened was Elizabeth, the virgin Queen.
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
12:55 am
August 12, 2009
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Unless this male heir died in his teens as well. With the last 4 marriages of Henry not happening and the line of inheritance fixed firmly upon Anne's children, would Elizabeth's accession have been unchallenged? Or would Mary have asserted her claim?
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
9:58 am
February 10, 2010
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Ooooh, interesting question… and forgive the rambling post – I'm thinking as I'm going.
If Mary was unmarried and in England she would almost certainly have asserted her claim and would have received the backing of the Empire. Anne's son would have had the backing of France and there would have been civil war.
Anne's son would have been about 10 or 11 when Henry died. Assuming Anne hadn't died in childbed she would have pushed her claim to be regent and was a forceful enough character to win.
As Anne wouldn't have fallen out with Cromwell he would have probably seen that Mary would be a potential problem and would have suggested that she be married to a Protestant prince, probably in what's now Germany, which would get her out of England and therefore make any conquest difficult – as a former mercenary Cromwell would have known that speed is half the battle.
So, Anne's son becomes Henry IX. Let's say that he dies aged around 16/17 as all of Henry's sons did. Elizabeth then succeeds just before her 20th birthday. Her reign is therefore longer but she still has her mother to advise her and she hasn't seen her father's parade of wives and their ends, hasn't been imprisoned in the Tower, etc.
But whereas Mary abroad probably doesn't have much support to take on a half-brother she may well get support to take on Elizabeth – so we come back to civil war.
I think the result of that may depend on whether Anne has managed to become a much-loved queen consort and regent or whether she is still vilified (as she is today) for Henry's actions against the Catholic church.
Either way, it's probably for the best things turned out as they did.
11:32 am
May 16, 2011
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I know that i can't change anything by writing words down, or typing words down…but i like to imagine how Anne and Henry and Elizabeth and everyone else had been if Anne had a son. I also try to imagine things like what if Henry never met Anne Boleyn?, What if Henry gave up on Anne and stayed married to Katherine of Aragn?, What if Anne died in childbirth with Elizabeth?, What if Elizabeth was a boy?, What if Jane Seymour never came in the picture?, What if Jane lived?, What if Henry defied everyone and didn't marry AOC?, What if he came to love AnneCleves and kept her as a wife?, What if he never met Kathryn Howard?, What if Kathryn did get pregnant and have a child?, What if Kathryn never cheated?, What if Henry didn't meet Catherine Parr?, What if C.Parr was beheaded?…would he take a 7th wife?.
I mean there are so many questions and what if's that i wondered about and this post was just another What if?….
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
7:42 pm
August 12, 2009
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I think my head just exploded. In a good way… 
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
9:58 am
August 2, 2010
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I agree. Anne would have been kept as a wife because, oh no, we wouldn't want to jeopardize the succession–a son is all important!! Although I suppose, knowing Henry, if he had taken a fancy to a pretty young maid-of-honor to Anne, maybe he would have divorced her but kept his son in the succession. But I doubt it, unless the mistress was pregnant perhaps, because he would want no question at all that his son was to inherit the throne. He would have taken many mistresses, but never treated Anne as cruelly as in the tumultous years preceding her accusation and execution.
Elizabeth would have stayed the adored Princess and been married off to a Prince or King of another country. Protestantism would probably have developed more swiftly, with a radical Anne as Queen Consort, and the Boleyns would continue to rise in status. The Seymours would never rise, Lady Jane Grey would not be dead, and Elizabeth and Mary might never have even become Queen. Elizabeth would have been before Mary in the sucession, however, if Mary was left in at all. She would have been treated very badly for an extensive period of time, at the end of which she might repent publicly of her Catholic ways and maybe even welcomed back into the open arms of her father (with Anne's ire, of course, rampant).
"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"
9:13 am
August 27, 2011
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To be honest when I do what if…I go back and let Arthur live and save everybody.
Can't help it.
9:40 am
May 16, 2011
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Yeah…if Arthur had lived so many things would of been different and all the wives would live their lives. Katherine & Arthur married and have children, sons maybe? I can't really say much for the other wives though….without Henry as King i have no clue what might of happened.
Anne Boleyn might not of been brought to the English court and might not of met Henry Percy. Or maybe her marriage to the Butler dude would'a gone through. Maybe Arthur would take a liking to her? Maybe if Henry (VIII) was at court he'd like Anne like Henry Percy did or whatever…? What matters was Anne would of lived but would of never had her and our Elizabeth.
Jane Seymour would most likely be married off to some high born man. And if she was at court as a lady in waiting to KOA maybe Arthur would'a liked her? Little miss sweet Jane Seymour might of been a mistress with no hopes of being Queen unless KOA didn't have sons and Arthur didn't think the marriage lawful yadda yadda blah blah..
Anna of Cleves would be married or maybe not depending on what her controlling bully brother says.
Katheryn Howard would of remained in the Duchess's care. Maybe if Dereham came back they would of gotten hitched, for real this time..? She most likely would of been married off and all that fun stuff. Or maybe stayed with the duchess?
Catherine Parr would have married Thomas Seymour more sooner and might of had more kid lings or might of died sooner in childbirth.
Katherine Of Aragon's future is kind of obvious. She'd be pregnant within 3 – 5 years of marriage, maybe have a healthy baby or maybe not. For her sake though i'd hope Arthur was more….gracious and um stuff otherwise he might get rid of her like his brother did in reality.
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
7:05 am
February 10, 2010
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Ummm, if Arthur had lived Henry would have been destined for the church. A bishopric at least, possibly archbishop of York or Canterbury at some point. As a Catholic priest he would not have been allowed to marry. That wouldn't have stopped him being like Wolsey and having a mistress and acknowledged children of course.
There is nothing to say that Arthur would have been any more fertile than Henry, so KoA's position in terms of having children might not have been any different but Arthur wouldn't have been able to annul the marriage on the grounds Henry used (or on the pre-contract grounds he used with AoC as neither Arthur nor KoA were ever betrothed to anyone else).
Anne's Butler marriage fell through because the fathers couldn't agree on terms – that might still have happened. She might have got to marry Henry Percy though.
Jane Seymour possibly wouldn't have married – a marriage to one of the Dormers fell through – I can't remember if it was because she wasn't grand enough or whether it was because her father couldn't afford a dowry. If it was the latter, then it would always have been a problem.
AoC was in a similar position – Cleves was not a rich duchy and although her older sister married her younger sister Amelia (Amalia?) never married.
Katheryn Howard may have finished up as a lady in waiting and would probably have married Thomas Culpepper.
As Mya-Elise says, Katherine Parr would probably have married Thomas Seymour after Lord Latimer's death.
Now what I'm wondering is what would have happened if Arthur had succeeded H7, but died before he and KoA had an heir? H8 would have been dragged from the church and would have had to marry but he wouldn't have married KoA – he'd have married another European princess. Wonder who?
4:42 am
May 19, 2011
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Yes, Henry in the church. All those little children he would have molested.
If Anne had a boy I think Mary would have gone the way of the princes in the tower. She was a nuisance to the protestant faith, Henry, Anne and others of the council….
Or she would have been married off to a protestant- somewhere in the country. A different country.
I have been musing on Anne's year of death if she wasn't killed before her time. Did Mary Boleyn die young?
I think a 11/12 year old boy with Anne and Henry's personality would have stood a chance. But I think I would miss Elizabeth too much…
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
