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12:49 am
January 17, 2011
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I've often wondered if Anne REALLY actually believed that Henry would put her to death? Did Anne think that Henry wouldn't be able to face it in the end in the knowledge of what they'd once been and because of their daughter Elizabeth even though Henry wanted and needed a son so desparately. I've often wondered if Anne thought it was like some game between her and Henry and they were like testing each other how far they'd go and when it came to it Henry wouldn't actually execute his once queen……interesting?!!!
3:41 am
February 10, 2010
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I think she did think it was a test to begin with. It was only when her supposed lovers, particularly Henry Norris, were condemned that she realised how serious it was. By the 17th of May when George was executed and her marriage was annulled, I think she just wanted it all to be over.
7:26 pm
May 16, 2011
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I think she knew it was a possibility but in the beginning i don't think she thought it was actually going to happen. I agree that she probably knew it was really legit serious when her brother and accused lovers were condemned.
Maybe she did think it was a test right when she was arrested, like maybe Henry thought she was cheating and by arresting her and everything he thought she'd confess and it'd be over with. But if she thought it was a test then why would she make 'crazy' remarks and cry then laugh and so on and so on?
I have no idea what was in her head when she was arrested. All i know is she must've been scared.
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
11:21 pm
August 12, 2009
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Mya-Elise. said:
I think she knew it was a possibility but in the beginning i don’t think she thought it was actually going to happen. I agree that she probably knew it was really legit serious when her brother and accused lovers were condemned.
Maybe she did think it was a test right when she was arrested, like maybe Henry thought she was cheating and by arresting her and everything he thought she’d confess and it’d be over with. But if she thought it was a test then why would she make ‘crazy’ remarks and cry then laugh and so on and so on?
I have no idea what was in her head when she was arrested. All i know is she must’ve been scared.
I've wondered if her remarks about it being a test were her clutching at straws or being in denial, with the hysteria being her realizing that, yeah, Henry would execute a wife.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
2:12 am
June 7, 2011
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Henry never behaved honestly when he wanted a close friend executed – he behaved like nothing was wrong, and they had no idea what awaited them till they were arrested and charged.
While Anne was being investigated, I don't think she knew what was happening until she was arrested. Henry treated her as usual until that moment, where he left her alone at the joust, but even then, I don't think she knew what was going on.
When she heard the charges against her, I believe she was so shocked by the accusations, and so confused by Henry's behaviour, in her mind, there was no way he would kill her. After all, you wouldn't murder someone you supposedly loved…
Unfortunately, as time went by and the other's were executed, she realised the truth, and it broke her heart. For the first time, she showed her vulnerability. There was no more need to be hardened, strong and spirited as she was, and her sharp tongue gave way to her real self. She may have been Queen, but in reality she was just a woman, wrongly accused, dis-guarded and alone. Her behaviour went from denial to acceptance, as she mulled over the once great love Henry had for her, their time together and her faith in God. She knew she had to die, she believed the prophesy, but it didnt make it any easier when the time came. She didn't want to die, but trusted in her innocence.
Anne made her peace, and found strength to die in that.
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
3:16 pm
August 12, 2009
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Yes. “God has shown me how to die, and he will strengthen my faith.”
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
10:28 am
May 16, 2011
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God, it's just so sad though. I understand people were greedy back then but why would Cromnwell help and sit back and watch an innocent person die? It's not human…it's just plain wrong. People knew she was innocent but still encouraged it and didn't say one word. I wish someone could of just hugged her and said 'it'll all be okay'. I know what it's like to feel alone and like you don't have anyone to turn to. It sucks.
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
11:08 am
February 24, 2010
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Mya,
These people were a different breed. They worked for the king…who was second only to God. They did what he ordered or they ended up on the block. Their very lives depended on their loyalty to the whims of their sovereign. Thomas More tried to stay above the fray by not giving his opinion and he lost his head for his effort. You couldn't win with Henry. If he wanted something done, these men and women made it happen or else. These people were at the king's mercy. Is it human? Maybe not to you and me, but they did what they were asked to do in order to survive. And for many of them, their actions were not good enough for Henry. Many of the men who were involved in Anne's downfall ended their lives on the block in spite of their efforts to be loyal to Henry.
I think Anne understood this. When she was arrested, she must have known in her heart that Henry was done with her. She was made aware of the charges against her before she was taken to the Tower. The charges must have shocked her, but once she was in the Tower, even though she may have hoped for life, she must have known deep down that Henry was willing to do his worst to be rid of her. Her anguish must have been unbearable. To top it off, the women who were assigned to her, had no respect or sympathy for her. She wasn't completely alone, however. If her faith was her guide, she did not walk alone. She found peace with her God, and she died with strength, dignity and grace.
3:25 am
May 19, 2011
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She knew. In her heart, she knew it was all over in the worst possible way. “O Norris, hast thou betrayed me? You are in the Tower with me, and we shall die together.”
I'm not so sure anymore that it was as simple as Henry wanting to be rid of her. Anne was a jealous, passionate woman with a sharp tongue. Could not the King genuinely have believed the accusations against her? Perhaps he thought her “affair” was out of revenge? Maybe he was brain damaged from his fall in the joust? All these things we wonder about the last few months of their marriage perhaps combined; providing the wedge for Cromwell to tear them apart.
I wish there could be an answer on this: Did Henry believe the charges? Or did he not? Why did it happen? Of course, we will never know.
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
4:21 am
June 7, 2011
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E said:
She knew. In her heart, she knew it was all over in the worst possible way. “O Norris, hast thou betrayed me? You are in the Tower with me, and we shall die together.”
I'm not so sure anymore that it was as simple as Henry wanting to be rid of her. Anne was a jealous, passionate woman with a sharp tongue. Could not the King genuinely have believed the accusations against her? Perhaps he thought her “affair” was out of revenge? Maybe he was brain damaged from his fall in the joust? All these things we wonder about the last few months of their marriage perhaps combined; providing the wedge for Cromwell to tear them apart.
I wish there could be an answer on this: Did Henry believe the charges? Or did he not? Why did it happen? Of course, we will never know.
I agree! I think he believed it! The argument they had before, when Anne brought Elizabeth to him – it was about another man, and Henry was sulking with Anne! He wouldn't sulk if he didn't care! He would be glad of it, another reason to kill his wife and marry that Jane person. They were happy only months before, but he took Anne's miscarriages personally, as a betrayal by Anne. His paranoia about God punishing him for his mistakes was fed by Anne's loss of pregnancies and no doubt Jane whispering in his ear. His head injury removed his reason and conscience, turning him into a tyrant. He suddenly hated Anne, believing she had seduced him and used him. Jane was (to him) the light at the end of the tunnel. He had no problem killing Anne because she had hurt him, and his ego. Plus the way he tried to wipe out Anne's existence screams of denial – why would you need to forget someone you don't care about any more? Court must have been so boring and quiet once Anne was gone.
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
1:23 pm
November 18, 2010
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Mya-Elise. said:
God, it's just so sad though. I understand people were greedy back then but why would Cromnwell help and sit back and watch an innocent person die? It's not human…it's just plain wrong. People knew she was innocent but still encouraged it and didn't say one word.
Sadly, I've seen a lot of internet posts dicussing the US death penalty where several people had said they would rather have many innocent people executed than let ome guilty person live.
Plus there have been many atrocites across the world in which poeple were brutally murdered because they were of a different tribe/race/religion than thier neighbours.
It's always bunnies.
10:50 pm
June 7, 2011
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It was Anne or Cromwell, so Cromwell saved himself. It's human nature.
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
7:55 am
June 7, 2010
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This is an interesting question. I've been off the forum for awhile, so I am but behind the ball here. There's are just my opinions and observations, okay…
In the beginning, when she was arrested, I cannot imagine Anne's initial reaction was death. No English Queen had been executed before, so no precedent existed. I imagine she considered being put away in a nunnery or exiled from court. I can only imagine the sheer terror and fear of those early days when she and others did not know what was going on.
In her situation, I would want to believe it was a test, but there must have come a time when she knew it was game over. Henry wanted rid of her. Full Stop. I've often vacilliated in my mind about Henry's position of the subject of Anne's innocent or guilt. I was never sure, until I read Lipscombe's 1536 . She theorises about Henry knowing about Anne's innocence, but needing to balance his psyche, accepted her guilt. Frankly, their marriage was over, there would be no son, Henry blamed Anne for it, wanted a new wife and a son, so it was more expedient to kill her then deal with her alive, in exile. Henry was well aware of how that scenerio went down with KOA and AB. As Starkey argued in his tv mini-series on Henry's wives, “blood was spilled to make Anne's marriage, blood would be spilled to undo it.”
"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn
