Sharon said:

I hate it when I get sidetracked like this, but I was looking something up on an entirely different subject when I came across a quote in Joanne Denny's book, Anne Boleyn, A New Life of England's tragic Queen:

“As he lay dying, Henry confessed the many injustices of his reign and allegedly was truly repentant, and among other things on account of the injury and crime committed against the said Queen, {Anne Boleyn}”  Denny is quoting D'Aubigny, Vol. 2 pg 491.

Anyone ever heard this before?

I cant say i've ever come accross that but I think if he ever did say something of that affect it was probably more out of fear for his soul and going to hell rather then him actually being sorry.

Sharon said:

sassuhfrass93 said:

Sharon said:

I hate it when I get sidetracked like this, but I was looking something up on an entirely different subject when I came across a quote in Joanne Denny's book, Anne Boleyn, A New Life of England's tragic Queen:

“As he lay dying, Henry confessed the many injustices of his reign and allegedly was truly repentant, and among other things on account of the injury and crime committed against the said Queen, {Anne Boleyn}”  Denny is quoting D'Aubigny, Vol. 2 pg 491.

Anyone ever heard this before?

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I cant say i've ever come accross that but I think if he ever did say something of that affect it was probably more out of fear for his soul and going to hell rather then him actually being sorry.

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LOL…I agree completely.

I imagine Henry would have spent a LONG time with his confessor before his death.. aha.

 I'm certain he missed Anne, after all you can't spend all that time and energy over some-one without missing them.

How much he regretted Anne's death, murder, execution I really can't say. I'd love to believe Henry regretted all the horcruxes he made .. wrong story. We so need a strike out here…

JWold77 said:

I believe that, quite simply, Henry's only fear was that England would be left without a male heir. He would love a woman wholeheartedly (Catherine of Aragon, Anne) but then discard her, why? We all know the claim of Catherine having consumated her marriage to Prince Arthur, and we know even more well the false charges laid against Anne. The charges, in my opinion, we a defense mechanism for Henry's brain, a way to justify things. And all of this turmoil was for the heir and son he desired. I have no doubt Jane Seymour would have been queen for a good long time had she not died in childbed.

 

Therefore, no I don't think he “missed” Anne, or regretted her execution. He probably saw it as what she deserved, as she had failed to give him the thing he so desired, a strong heir to the throne of England.

 

Ah, but what irony 🙂 It was Anne's child that was England's strong heir… That is the only thing that lightens my heart when I think about the fate of Anne Boleyn.

I don't think Henry feared leaving England without a male heir so much as the fear that HE would be remembered for failing to provide a male heir. I believe we can tend to over complicate Henry's motives in these instances, Henry was capricious and often acted out of expediency, the moment in time that is now was all that mattered to him. He discarded Anne almost as a matter of fault transference and as such found it easy to redirect his emotion elsewhere. Jane died before he could find fault with her but, despite the fact she gave Henry his much desired son, I believe that sooner or later Jane would have fallen from grace if it so suited Henry at a given circumstance. Did he regret Anne's execution? One would like to think so, as it is only human to have some feelings for someone you once loved so much, even after the relationship has soured. But in Henry's case I doubt it, Henry acted in the best interests of Henry, individuals meant little to him unless they could further his own ambition and even the needs of the country came a poor second to the needs of Henry.

JWold77 said:

 

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I agree with Henry's motives. You worded well what I was trying to say! 🙂 What I meant about Jane Seymour, was that even though the king may have taken a mistress (or two or seven…) she would have remained in power and her role as Queen would not have been challenged. Most likely. You are right in that Henry did indeed have some problems with impulsion and anything was possible.
 

Great discussion though! I enjoy reading everyone's ideas and opinions.

Thanks JWold, Yes, we do like a good discussion on this site and It's always good to get different viewpoints on our favourite subject. We might agree with some and not others, but it's always done in a friendly and informed manner. Look forward to reading your viewpoints on other subjects in the future.

I'm wondering if the beginning of Henrys' tyranny is something that can accurately be dated.  The accident of 1536 may have accelerated a lot but by then he'd already discarded one wife and executed many including More and Fisher.  And early on in his reign he got rid ofhis fathers tax collectors  on some pretty dodgy evidence, just because he could.  I think maybe it all goes back to his childhood where he was probably doted on by his mother and sisters and those he was brought up by.  Sure, things became more austere under his father but he didn't have any power to do anything about that at the time.  He was probably one of those people that while things are going their way they're all fun and games, but disagree with them or disappoint them, then watch out!  People like that probably shouldn't be allowed much power, heh!

Neil Kemp said:

I think Henry's behaviour would make a great study in psychopathology, his predilection was only temperate in the early days due to the influence of Wolsey, who in effect kept the brakes on Henry. When Henry began to realise the full extent of his power after Wolsey's fall from grace in 1530 there was no stopping him. He began to realise he had ultimate power and could do what he wanted, when he wanted and to anyone he wanted, this upward spiral of despotism continued until his death, with few or any acts of kindness, save to his most trusted friends. Henry did what Henry wanted, for the good of and benefit to Henry, if any of his actions benefited anyone else I believe this to be purely coincidental. I believe Henry was on the ultimate power trip and his position gave him free rein to induldge, Perhaps I'm being a tad harsh on Henry, but that's just the way I see his actions.

I agree that he would have been fascinating to study with modern psychology. It's funny, isn't it, how much power can do to a person. It seems simple, but it could be just that “absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Sure, Parliament existed, but the monarchy still, basically, had total control. Power trip, definately a large and likely possibility.

Also, I can't remember the date, when Henry became unconscious after falling off his horse while jousing. Brain damage can do a lot to a person…including what we saw in Henry VIII. Anyone have more specfiic info on this incident?

Then again, a lot of people in history seem a little mad. I guess that's what makes them interesting to us contemporary folks.

Neil Kemp said:

JWold77 said:

 

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Also, I can't remember the date, when Henry became unconscious after falling off his horse while jousing. Brain damage can do a lot to a person…including what we saw in Henry VIII. Anyone have more specfiic info on this incident?
 

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January 1536, Anne had a miscarriage at the same time (said to have been caused by the shock), Henry's accident was thought to be so bad that it seemed doubtful Henry would recover, he did (bad news for Anne), but he was left with a wound to his leg that never healed. His mood swings increased after this and would have been a factor in his behaviour, although I believe his predilection for power and desire to do anything, or blame anyone other than himself (fault transference) when things went wrong, were very much in place before the accident, although this would, without doubt, have enhanced this conduct. 

Thanks  for the information! You are all very knowledgable! I thought it was somewhere around then, but wasn't sure. His was sure an interesting life (to say the least) and there are always many factors involved in the reasons a person does things.

I don't a lot of the times, but that's why it's so important to ask questions!

So, Henry didn't miss Anne, but he must have felt something. He was human afterall…Or maybe I just like to think the most of people.

Henry was human?…lol  If Henry thought of Anne at all, it was privately.  I tend to think that when she came into his mind, he immediately blotted out the thoughts.  He did so many horrible things.  He had to block them out of his mind in order to carry on.

I also think the worst when it comes to Henry.  In my book, he was an egotistical maniac with a 'god' complex.