Hannele said

Which people? Only supporters of Boleyns and they were very few. In any case, what really mattered were the Pope and the Empereror for without the help from outside, there could be no threat to the position of Henry’s successor.

Besides, by making also Elizabeth a bastard and keeping Mary a bastard, Henry had no legitimate child and heir, only three bastards and Fitzroy even died in the summer. He could have no certainty that he would have a son by Jane. That was a very dangerous situation.

Although Claire says in her book that one lover of Anne (Smeaton) would have made Henry a cuckold to laughed at but five lovers made him a pitiable man betrayed by an evil woman, I am not concinved. Would any man, still less a king, really want pity? After all, one feels pity only towards one’s inferior. In choosing such a wife and not suspecting her for years, Henry would have shown to have a very poor judgment and in that case, he was not fit to be a king.

Any people who were dissatisfied with the situation at any time. You have only to look back at TWOTR to see how a disputed succession could create opportunities for alternative kings. There were still people alive in Henry’s reign who had a Yorkist claim to the crown. Henry, left at the time of Anne’s execution with two bastard daughters and a bastard son, could not afford for any questions to be raised over Jane’s children. Henry was confident he would have a son – the earlier ‘faults’ being down to his wives, – so he had no concerns that Jane would not produce an heir.

What he needed above all else was for that son to be unquestionably legitimate. By killing Anne, he made sure of that.

I am sure Henry could picture himself as a genuine man betrayed by a wh*re. If he could suggest that Anne’s power over him had been by witchcraft, then no blame could attach to him – it would all be Anne’s fault. Thus, in his own eyes at least, Henry bore no responsibility for what had happened with Anne and he would be sure his fellow monarchs would sympathise with him.

Hannele said

Sharon said It is my personal belief that Henry was well pleased when this whole thing came about. I think he did order Cromwell to put a case together and that it had better be airtight against Anne, and I think he was in on every single part of Anne’s demise.

It may be that Henry was pleased that he could get rid of Anne and marry again, but I find it hard to believe that any man, much less a king, would be pleased when all the world knew him to be a cuckold instead simply annulling the marriage.

Well, it didn’t seem to bother him too much, did it? He should never have allowed the charges of adultery to be used if he didn’t want to be seen as a cuckold. According to Eric Ives, adultery was not a crime at this time. At least not if the queen consented, which in this case they said she did. Adultery did not become a crime until 1542. The charges of adultery with 5 different men was to destroy Anne and make it look like she was the worse type of woman who deserved beheading, which was accomplished. To counteract that cuckold title he was partying every night while Anne was in the Tower. Marrying Jane so soon after Anne’s death was to put an end to the rumors. Henry was aware of what might be said about him, and he worked/played diligently to dispel rumors of cuckoldry.
Pleas ignore the first post. An error on my part. Sorry that was not supposed to show up twice.

Good point Hannele, but to be honest I don’t think it would have made any difference to the outcome. Anne was deadfrom the minute Cromwell and Lard Arse put their dunces caps on.
I think the reason to why the men were tried first, is to perhaps, emphasis or convince the jury that Anne was guilty, by blackening her name and the full stop on that was George, the jury believed that Anne was a sex crazed nympho, who had been in more beds than a crocus.
It may also be down to the fact of all the crap he went through at the Blackfriars divorce from K.O.A case. K.O.A defended herself very well, and I believe that if the case had been left to it’s natural end, Campagio would pronouce the case valid anyway.
Lard Arse was made to look a big fat prat (as well as being one) at Blackfriars, and he didn’t want to do that again, so playing the poor bleeding Sad sack of lying crap, he hoped that people would feel sorry for him and that Anne was a coniving little baggage who had corrupted him…..
Yeah right Lard arse, you ain’t fooling no-one…

HerLadyInWaitingForever said

Both, and more I believe too. They were not the only ones that wanted rid of her…some others did too. So much just piled up and made it convenient for her death to happen. If only she could have known what it was she had walked into…

Certainly Henry wanted it to happen and so it happened..Cromwell was his Mr Fix-It who got the job done and yes there were a lot of other men who were glad to see the backs of the Boleyn faction, including former members such as Norfolk and Sir Francis Bryan.The Seymours and the Imperial faction had their own agenda to follow which required Anne to be gone…permanently as they didn’t want a former queen hanging around casting a shadow like KoA had done.

None of this would have happened had Henry not desired it. Cromwell would never have attempted to do it on his own. He was Henry’s loyal advisor, and the best lawyer in town. Henry knew that Anne was not well liked by most of his court. There was no one to take her side. By including the 5 men who died with her, Cromwell and Henry were assured that no one else would take up her cause. They would be destroyed as well. (consider Cranmer who loved her, but dared not go against the king)

Yes, I think Henry did say to Cromwell that he should use whatever means necessary to be rid of Anne and her faction. I believe none of this could have happened otherwise. Although I think Brereton was thrown in by Cromwell for his own political reasons. As to Henry believing the charges, he pretty much had to say that he believed them, didn’t he? He didn’t want the world to think he killed his innocent wife.

Bo, do you think he would have remained married to Anne if Katherine had been healthy and had lived longer? I’ll have to think about that one.