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5:02 am
June 7, 2011
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Hello Everyone! I was looking at paintings of the Tudor family and Anne, and noticed a striking simularity between portraits of Anne and Mary (Henry's sister)
Anne:
Mary Tudor (With Charles Brandon) :
The mouth, hair, face shape and eyes seem so simular, as does the chin. What do you guys think?
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
10:05 am
May 16, 2011
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Actually they do look alot alike….i've never noticed it before. I can't tell which Anne portrait looks like Mary more because they both do. That would kind of suck if those Anne portraits turned out to be Mary, then we'd bascially have nothing to help us imagine what Anne really looked it.
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
7:23 pm
January 9, 2010
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I've noticed the similarities too! The Hever portrait of Anne and the one of Mary Tudor have a lot in common, especially their facial features – longish faces, high cheek bones, dark eyes. They even have a similar colouring, and Mary Tudor was supposed to have strawberry blonde coloured hair!
11:34 pm
June 7, 2011
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I totally agree with you! I always imagined Mary's hair much lighter. If going by this portrait it was very red!
She was definatly beautiful, not a brunette though. Although they did use alot of artistic license back then – making dark hair blonde and dark eyes blue due to fashion.
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
12:38 am
May 19, 2011
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I've always thought they looked similar too! Perhaps that was another of the reasons Mary disliked Anne..
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
6:39 am
June 7, 2011
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I found this image, which is exactly the same as the one in the painting of Mary with Charles Brandon. I'm not sure which one was done first, but this one shows her true colouring.
Prohaps the one with Brandon is based on this one:
It's funny how Mary hated Anne, even though she herself was forced to marry for duty rather than love. You would think she would be sympathetic to Henry's plight.
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
3:38 pm
May 16, 2011
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But Anne didn't exactly marry for duty. Personally i'm one of the believers that Anne's father and Uncle urged her into flirting with the king but i do believe she loved Henry, maybe not at first but i know she did…i don't think she was that calculating and manipulative. I also think it wasn't all Anne's Father & Uncle's fault, some of it was Anne. At first she probably played along to please her family but then she saw how the King really deeply loved her and she saw the crown at the end of the road and honestly i think everyone would see the advantage in that. Despite that i believe she truly loved Henry.
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
7:42 pm
May 16, 2011
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Yes it would suck…..
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
12:46 am
May 19, 2011
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I think at the start Henry pursued Anne and I don't think she was interested in him, just the attention it brought her. I think she loved the games of courtly love and was messing with him. Which turned into rather a deadly game for her.. But then after two or three years I think she started to love him. She believed the prophecy of Merlin- that a Queen of England would be sacrificed for the country to have a golden age.. maybe that was a small part of what swayed her into a relationship with Henry. Anne was strong willed and feisty. She was not the typical woman of the era.. This aspect of her personality ended up alienating her father and uncle, (and quite a few other of her friends at court), so I don't think she was at all controlled by her family in her relationship with the king- although that didn't stop them from reaping the benefits. It was Anne's father and uncle who where the cold manipulative ones!
I would have thought Mary could have been a bit more understanding for Henry too- and celebrated that he had found a love match rather than an empty political union. (This isn't a slight on KOA, as by all reports her marriage with Henry was thought to be a love match) I think Mary was of the opinion that as Anne had served her; she was beneath Henry's attentions..
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
1:37 am
November 23, 2010
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E said:
She believed the prophecy of Merlin- that a Queen of England would be sacrificed for the country to have a golden age.
I have never heard of this before, where did you hear about this prophecy and that Anne believed in it?
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5:58 am
April 11, 2011
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I always believed that Anne took stock of a prophecy which said that a Queen of England would be burnt at the stake. This is from a different source than the prophecy of Merlin, whose prophecies were regarded by many as being so obscure as to be total nonsense.
10:03 am
February 24, 2010
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E said:
I would have thought Mary could have been a bit more understanding for Henry too- and celebrated that he had found a love match rather than an empty political union. (This isn't a slight on KOA, as by all reports her marriage with Henry was thought to be a love match) I think Mary was of the opinion that as Anne had served her; she was beneath Henry's attentions..
E, I have questioned Mary's dislike of Anne also. I have come to the conclusion that there was no way Mary was going to accept Anne in place of Katherine. Mary had grown up with Katherine. I believe Mary looked upon their marriage as a love match. It was they type of marriage she would want when the time came for her to marry. I don't think her feelings ever changed. To Mary, Katherine was the woman Henry would always love.
Anne had served Mary in France. Anne had served Katherine. Now this girl was to be a queen?
There was a dinner held in December, 1529, to honor Thomas Boleyn who had recently been given the title of Earl of Wiltshire. Katherine was not there. By all rights, the two highest ladies in the land, Duchess of Norfolk and the Duchess of Suffolk, should have taken precedence over all the other ladies in the hall with Mary sitting beside the King. Mary still held the title of Queen of France. However, Henry, who had recently lavished Anne with many jewels, had her seated next to him. Anne was wearing her newly acquired jewels. Here is Mary, the king's sister, being displaced in the pecking order by a servant who is wearing more jewels than Mary could now afford. Remember, Henry put the Brandon's in debt when he forgave them their secret marriage.
I don't think it a stretch to say, Mary must have been furious. Instead of causing more trouble between Henry and her family, she decided to leave court and live on Brandon's estate in the country where she escaped being involved with Henry's new life. She was asked to go to Calais when Henry took Anne to meet Francis, but she refused to go.
I don't think Mary saw Henry's and Anne's relationship as a love match. My take is she saw Anne as a manipulator and Henry as a lustful fool.
If you are interested, the only non-fiction book I have found about Margaret and Mary is called, Sisters To The King, by Maria Perry.
10:20 am
May 16, 2011
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Did Mary like Anne before she became Henry's love interest? Or was it just a queen, servant relationship?
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
11:39 am
February 24, 2010
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Mya,
There really wasn't any of that kind of info in the book. Anne was at Margaret of Austria's court when Mary was going to France. Mary could not take a lady (Jane Popincourt) with her as she wished, and she requested Anne instead. Anne arrived later in France. When Louis wanted to dismiss some of Mary's ladies, Anne was one of six chosen to stay. Her sister was sent home. There must have been something that Mary liked about Anne for her to keep her with her in France. Anne stayed with Mary until she returned to England married to Brandon. After that Anne served Claude. I always wondered if something happened in France to alienate Mary and Anne, but I have not found any proof of that.
12:09 pm
June 7, 2011
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Sharon said:
Mya,
There really wasn't any of that kind of info in the book. Anne was at Margaret of Austria's court when Mary was going to France. Mary could not take a lady (Jane Popincourt) with her as she wished, and she requested Anne instead. Anne arrived later in France. When Louis wanted to dismiss some of Mary's ladies, Anne was one of six chosen to stay. Her sister was sent home. There must have been something that Mary liked about Anne for her to keep her with her in France. Anne stayed with Mary until she returned to England married to Brandon. After that Anne served Claude. I always wondered if something happened in France to alienate Mary and Anne, but I have not found any proof of that.
Hmm wasn't Anne always included in whatever scandle her sister got into, even if she hadnt done anything? Her sister was putting it about alot! Maybe Anne defended her sister's actions or maybe Mary just thought Anne, a commoner, had overstepped the mark.
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
1:55 am
May 19, 2011
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Sharon said:
E said:
I would have thought Mary could have been a bit more understanding for Henry too- and celebrated that he had found a love match rather than an empty political union. (This isn't a slight on KOA, as by all reports her marriage with Henry was thought to be a love match) I think Mary was of the opinion that as Anne had served her; she was beneath Henry's attentions..
E, I have questioned Mary's dislike of Anne also. I have come to the conclusion that there was no way Mary was going to accept Anne in place of Katherine. Mary had grown up with Katherine. I believe Mary looked upon their marriage as a love match. It was they type of marriage she would want when the time came for her to marry. I don't think her feelings ever changed. To Mary, Katherine was the woman Henry would always love.
Anne had served Mary in France. Anne had served Katherine. Now this girl was to be a queen?There was a dinner held in December, 1529, to honor Thomas Boleyn who had recently been given the title of Earl of Wiltshire. Katherine was not there. By all rights, the two highest ladies in the land, Duchess of Norfolk and the Duchess of Suffolk, should have taken precedence over all the other ladies in the hall with Mary sitting beside the King. Mary still held the title of Queen of France. However, Henry, who had recently lavished Anne with many jewels, had her seated next to him. Anne was wearing her newly acquired jewels. Here is Mary, the king's sister, being displaced in the pecking order by a servant who is wearing more jewels than Mary could now afford. Remember, Henry put the Brandon's in debt when he forgave them their secret marriage.
I don't think it a stretch to say, Mary must have been furious. Instead of causing more trouble between Henry and her family, she decided to leave court and live on Brandon's estate in the country where she escaped being involved with Henry's new life. She was asked to go to Calais when Henry took Anne to meet Francis, but she refused to go.
I don't think Mary saw Henry's and Anne's relationship as a love match. My take is she saw Anne as a manipulator and Henry as a lustful fool.
If you are interested, the only non-fiction book I have found about Margaret and Mary is called, Sisters To The King, by Maria Perry.
Sharon, that's fantastic! My book collection grows by the hour! I will be ordering a copy of Sisters To The King as soon as Ebay provides one!
Clarebear.. Everything I've read on Anne has kind of blurred together, but my book list is as follows: “The Lady in the Tower”- Weir, “The six wives”- Starkey, Weir, Frasier,” Henry 8 king and court”- Weir, “She wolves”- Elizabeth Norton, “Jane Boleyn”- Julia Fox… I appreciate this isn't much help
but I'm sure it's somewhere in there! I seem to remember it being mentioned after the story of Anne finding a playing card with her image headless… Now the books I have on Elizabeth is a different matter- the reference may be in there… Neil, for some reason the prophecy of Merlin had stuck in my head- do you know which source it was Anne referenced? I'd love to have more info on it- do you know if there is any book on the prophecy of Merlin or that other source? Thanks!
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
3:53 pm
April 11, 2011
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E, Geoffrey of Monmouth combined existing people of the time to create the character of Merlin in his book Historia Regum Britanniae, the prophecies of Merlin are supposedly based on the words of Myrddin Wyllt.
For instant access look up Merlin – Merlin's prophecies – crystalinks.
http://www.crystalinks.com/merlin.html
You will find all the information regarding the prophecy of Merlin here and also a narrative of the actual prophecies. Be warned though, if you can read these prophecies without either: (A) Your head exploding, or (B) Losing the will to live, then you are a better person than I am. I believe that, like most predictions, they are worded in such an obscure manner in order to enable the reader to bring their own meaning to what is written and thus to be able to justify actions or events at any given time.
The origins of the prophecy regarding a Queen of England being burnt at the stake are unknown, but were popular at the time. Anne may have taken this prediction seriously as she is said to have stated this during an argument with Henry adding, “even if I were to suffer a thousand deaths, my love for you would not abate one jot”.
Hope this is of some help.
Having just checked this link, for some reason it doesn't load straight onto this site, however it does give the same site as an alternative (computers – don't ask me), so you can still click onto that and get in (hope this makes more sense than Merlin's prophecies).
9:12 am
May 19, 2011
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Brilliant Neil! Thank you I have always wanted to check out the prophecies and will approach them with caution!
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
