Well before Henry told the Pope to go to hell he still believed that the Pope would grant him an annulment from Catherine. He actually sent a Dr. something or other to Rome to ask for the appropiate dispensation to cover that. Once Henry made himself head of the church Cramner basically covered that situation and they were married.
As for his divorce from Anne on the same grounds, as COA. he couldn’t make it stick and that’s where Cromwell came in, with his joke of evidence of adultery etc against Anne. (Leveston would have a field day of the evidence Cromwell invented)
If you think about it Henry was really pushing his luck when it came to using the same excuse to divorce Anne as he did with COA.

I think is more of a case of when Henry wanted rid of Anne, Cromwell told him “Can’t use the incest excuse again old boy we need something more permenant” I.e Anne had to die.
Henry actually made himself look a bloody idiot at the blackfrairs trial if you think about it, raking up and using evidence that was nearly 30 years old. Plus even after the great divorce COA continued to be a thorn in his side. He didn’t want the same hassles with Anne, so again she had to die.
If he had perhaps claimed either or both Mary B’s kids as his own then maybe he would have a point, but he didn’t.
Once Henry had made up his mind to get rid of Anne her fate was sealed and all Cromwell had to do was invent the evidence.

I think Henry wanted all his bases covered this time. He wanted no impediment to his marriage to Jane*. All i’s dotted and all t’s crossed. He wanted to start this marriage as legally free and a bachelor…a first time groom.

* well, until he tired of her or some-one better came along…then I’m sure some-one would have found a reason why that marriage wasn’t fully legal.

Jane Seymour, Kathryn Howard, Anne and Mary Boleyn shared a great grandmother in Elizabeth Cheney, making them second cousins.

She was married firstly to Sir Fredrick Tilney and their daughter was Elizabeth Tilney how married Thomas Howard, the second Duke of Norfolk. Thier issue included Thomas Howard, Elizabeth Howard and Edmund Howard.

Her second marriage was to Sir John Say and from that marriage daughter Anne Say went on to marry Henry wentworth and thier daughter was Margery Wentworth and she married Sir John Seymour. Another daughter married Henry Bourchier and thier daughter was Anne Bourchier who was married to William Parr, Katherine Parr’s brother.

Of course, if Anne’s marriage to Henry wasn’t legal because of his carnal relations with her sister, Mary, how could she have committed adultery?

I agree Sharon. Henry had got what he wanted from the trial Anne was condemned end of story. but annuling the marriage just for the sake of it afterwards just seems to me to being a spiteful act on Henry’s part. Was the marriaged anulled after he asked Anne (Via Cromwell?) to give up her and Elizabeth’s rights to the throne and go abroad?

Louise said

Sharon said

Jasmine said

Of course, if Anne’s marriage to Henry wasn’t legal because of his carnal relations with her sister, Mary, how could she have committed adultery?

…and isn’t that the saddest part of this story. She didn’t have to die, yet Henry put her through this most embarrassing trial, then annulls the marriage, and kills her anyway.

Spite and malice

And the removal of a powerful anti-Cromwell faction…sez the Cromwell groupie

Sharon said

Boleyn said

I agree Sharon. Henry had got what he wanted from the trial Anne was condemned end of story. but annuling the marriage just for the sake of it afterwards just seems to me to being a spiteful act on Henry’s part. Was the marriaged anulled after he asked Anne (Via Cromwell?) to give up her and Elizabeth’s rights to the throne and go abroad?

It was Cranmer, not Cromwell who went to Anne supposedly on the 17th I think, to ask her for the annullment. The next day he proclaimed the marriage annulled. So they had been working on it for a while. We don’t know for sure what made Anne agree to this. Some believe that he promised her freedom. I’m not sure if Cranmer would have promised her that. He knew what her end was going to be. He may have just promised that Elizabeth would not come to any harm.

Thank you Sharon. I knew one of them had gone to Anne, but I always thought it would have been Cromwell. Did Anne agree to the annulment, well it wouldn’t have made any difference to the situation if she did, as Elizabeth had already been declared a bastard or was about to be by the time the verdict was given. If Henry hadn’t have dissolved the church in such a spectacular fashion there was perhaps a slim chance that Anne may have lived by going into a convent? I think that this ploy by Henry was a way of tying up any possible loose ends that may have been exploited at a later date, by some power hungry despots.