Please correct me, if any of the following is incorrect. I’ve had a long week at work, and am a bit frazzled.

I’ve always understood that Smeaton was an easy target. He was not noble, so certain methods could be used to extract information from him. he sadly implicated innocent people probably to save himself. Goodness knows what he was promised, and in the interest of self-preservation, he told them what they wanted to know, even though it was all lies.

Anne and Henry Norris have a bit of a confrontation in Anne’s apartments. He was hanging around and Anne makes some remark about Norris being in love with her, and looking for dead man shoes (or something to that effect).

Weston was a close friend of the King, but also an member of the Boleyn faction. I recall reading (but cannot remember the ciation) that Weston remarked to Anne that Norris came more to see her, rather than Madge Shelton. Didn’t Anne remark about this while imprisoned?
Brereton was a member of the King’s Privy Council, but like Weston, was close with the Boleyns.

Of course, George was Anne’s confident. It was necessary to take him down too. he was used to not just remove Anne as Queen, but to destroy her. George was her biggest support, and I doubt he would be silenced, if left alive.

I’ve always wondered about Wyatt. Does anyone know the theories about his freedom?

I’ve read that Wyatt was a friend of Cromwell and his arrest was a fake to show how the charges were true since Anne and Wyatt were very close in their youth. By showing such an obvious choice of paramour was innocent, the the rest of the case was true…

Smeaton was such an easy target. There was no-one of importance to stand up for him. He was disposable and as such could be the cat’s-paw to show just how depraved Anne was to couple with a mere servant who wasn’t even English…

Poor George would have defended Anne with his life and did. Again, he was an easy choice to accuse since Anne and George were closer than brothers and sisters were normally expected to be…

DuchessofBrittany said

Please correct me, if any of the following is incorrect. I’ve had a long week at work, and am a bit frazzled.

I’ve always understood that Smeaton was an easy target. He was not noble, so certain methods could be used to extract information from him. he sadly implicated innocent people probably to save himself. Goodness knows what he was promised, and in the interest of self-preservation, he told them what they wanted to know, even though it was all lies.

Anne and Henry Norris have a bit of a confrontation in Anne’s apartments. He was hanging around and Anne makes some remark about Norris being in love with her, and looking for dead man shoes (or something to that effect).

Weston was a close friend of the King, but also an member of the Boleyn faction. I recall reading (but cannot remember the ciation) that Weston remarked to Anne that Norris came more to see her, rather than Madge Shelton. Didn’t Anne remark about this while imprisoned?
Brereton was a member of the King’s Privy Council, but like Weston, was close with the Boleyns.

Of course, George was Anne’s confident. It was necessary to take him down too. he was used to not just remove Anne as Queen, but to destroy her. George was her biggest support, and I doubt he would be silenced, if left alive.

I’ve always wondered about Wyatt. Does anyone know the theories about his freedom?

Where Smeton was concerned I rather think he would have said anything just to stop being tortured. It’s fairly possible that Cromwell promised him his life in exchange for his lies. As for Norris I’m given to believe that he was courting or trying court Madge Shelton, although I rather think Madge was playing a hard game and actually wanted him to actually work for his marriage with her. I hope that makes sence. I also think he was holding back a little as Henry had shown an interest in Madge.

Weston and Bereton were just unfortuate victims of Cromwell’s spite, perhaps they had teased him a little too much over his humble origins or something like that. Cromwell just stored up these teasing comments and used them for full force when Henry wanted to get rid of Anne.
Yeah it’s right about George he couldn’t be left alive. I also feel that Cromwell brought the charges of incest again George and Anne because that way he could play devil’s advocate with the Catholic faction. Incest was again the laws of God and Man bring a charge like that against someone you damn them not in this life but in the to come too. I think it was also a way of Cromwell securing the death sentence for both of them.
As for Wyatt, that one is a real brain teaser. Why was he spared when Frances Dereham wasn’t? Granted K.H and Frances had sex before her marriage with the King, but their relationship was over before the Henry showed any interest in her? So surely the same could be said of Wyatt. I think it’s a matter of great debate to whether Anne and Wyatt actually had any form of sexual relationship by my answer is NO to that one.
I wonder if Cromwell recieved a very large bribe from the Wyatt family to spare Wyatt’s life? it wasn’t unheard of and Cromwell was if nothing else good at extorting money.

I think Brerton and Norris were added because they were supporters of Anne. When they and George were executed, there was no one left to defend her. The entire thing was a travesty and I think Henry knew full well that this whole thing was invented as an end to his means. I’m not defending Cromwell, but he was doing his job. Henry wanted Anne gone and it was Cromwell’s job to get it done. I’m sure that if Anne had been the kind of person that would have gone quietly, she would have been spared her life, but she wasn’t. Henry and Cromwell knew that she and her supporters would kick up a fuss so the charges had to be heinous enough to destroy her reputation and theirs along with it. Charging Anne and George with incest not only took Anne’s biggest supporter out of the equation, but made them all seem that much more disgusting to everyone. Anyone that was left that was in the Anne camp would have known to keep their mouths shut….or face the same fate.

I don’t believe Cromwell acted on his own in the fall of Anne and the five men who died with her. In my opinion Henry was a major player from beginning to end. He went to his brilliant lawyer and they hatched a scheme to be rid of the Boleyn faction.

Smeaton…Easy target. Not noble. He was always in the background playing his music. He too had a conversation with Anne about his being too low of birth for her to speak to him as she spoke to the others. What a better way to hurt her than to connect Anne romantically with a lowly musician. Whether it was torture or Cromwell’s interrogation techniques that won the day, Smeaton confessed to adultery. I also think he said something about Norris. He went to the Tower first.

Henry Norris…Was an old friend and confidant to the king and a member of the Privy Chamber. He was a very influential person in the Boleyn faction. He was also a loyal courtier to Anne. Everyone knows the story of what happened over that last weekend with Norris and the queen. ie, The “Dead man’s shoes” statement. Cromwell twisted that story so it came out as treason. When Henry left the joust abruptly taking Norris with him, he tried to get Norris to confess to adultery. He would not. Norris stated that he did not know about Smeaton and Anne committing adultery. Conclusion…Norris must have been involved too. Off to the Tower he goes.

George Boleyn…This is the nastiest piece of work of all in my opinion. The most hateful and hurtful lie they could have come up with. George had to removed if they were going to remove Anne. He was her greatest champion.
He was arrested on May 2nd and sent to the Tower.

Anne…arrested May 2nd and taken to the Tower. When Anne was in the Tower she sort of babbled, and she made statements about Weston and Norris. She was worried about a conversation she had with Weston over a year before concerning Madge Shelton and Norris. He told her Norris came to the Queen’s chamber not to see Madge but to see Anne. Weston also said that he himself loved someone in the Queen’s chamber. When Anne asked who it was, Weston replied it was himself. Anne was afraid that it would be thought that Norris had been in love with her for a year. Francis Weston was immediately arrested and sent to the Tower.

Page and Wyatt…Token arrests? Maybe Henry was being a little spiteful here remembering he viewed Wyatt a competitor for Anne in the beginning of their relationship. I think Wyatt’s arrest was personal. Page? Not sure other than he was often in Anne’s company. They were there to add to the rumors that Anne slept with everyone at court. After the deaths of Anne and the men, it could be said that the king acted benevolently and allowed these two to live. See, he wasn’t killing everyone. Also questioned was Francis Bryan.

William Brereton…He was a power to be reckoned with. He owned a great deal of property in Cheshire and North Wales. He had promised to be an obstacle in settling the Welsh border.

I guess all these men were tired of Anne. Jane would be easily controlled, and would never have posed any problems to Henry, or to Cromwell. The Seymours would then be the major faction in power. Anne was no such person; she was a woman who knew her own mind, and who played her own games. Remove Anne, and the way would be free for the Seymour faction to have Henry’s ear. Let’s compare the two mottos. Anne: the most happy. Jane: bound to serve and obey. To me, most telling.

Poor Jane. Miss Seymour couldn’t hold a candle to that termagant called Anne. You know Mya, I don’t know if many could actually suffer Anne’s arrogance with equanimity?