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9:58 pm
August 12, 2009
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Also, even if Mary was named Henry's heir, Edward would have replaced her because he was a son. Mary herself had no problem with this, nor did Elizabeth. They both accepted that a son would replace them in the succession.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
10:56 am
February 24, 2010
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Anyanka said:
Cramner annuled Henry and Anne’s marriage on May 14th 1536. This meant the marriage never happened. Just like the ones to Katherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves. I’m not sure if KAthryn Howard’s was annuled or not, I don’t think it was, leaving Henry a widower…
Anyanka,
I believe Henry and Anne's marriage was declared null and void on May 17th, 1536.
Had Katherine admitted a precontract to Dereham, it would have invalidated the marriage to Henry and excused her sexual alliance with Dereham. Once the affair with Culpeper was discovered and the Bill of Attainder passed against her, Henry had no reason to divorce/annul his marriage to KH. There were no children from this marriage to bastardize and she would soon be dead.
11:04 am
May 16, 2011
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Henry just wanted Anne gone, which is so confusing because he had wanted her around so bad. He didn't want to wait as long as he did with KOA and he probably thought Anne wouldn't go without a fight either so he needed to fight the fastest way to get rid of Anne and marry Jane. But what confuses me is that Katherine had probably told Henry she'd give him a son as did Anne, so why would he again believe Jane – It makes no sense! It's like Henry had amnesia (spelling?) after every marriage…
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
1:11 pm
February 24, 2010
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Mya-Elise,
That seemed to be the hook, wasn't it? Tell Henry you will give him a son and he is yours. He was obssessed with Anne, but he was more obssessed with having a son. I think Anne thoroughly dissappointed Henry. The promise of a living son was just not a promise she could keep. KOA could not give him a living son. But yeah, he kept believing. Henry would see a woman, and he would decide she's the one who will give him sons. Of course, when she doesn't, he just moves on to the next woman who catches his fancy, sure in his head that this new woman will be the “one.” If she promises him a son, all the better. It will be her fault if that promise is broken. 
2:55 pm
November 18, 2010
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Sharon said:
Anyanka said:
Cramner annuled Henry and Anne's marriage on May 14th 1536. This meant the marriage never happened. Just like the ones to Katherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves. I'm not sure if KAthryn Howard's was annuled or not, I don't think it was, leaving Henry a widower…
Anyanka,
I believe Henry and Anne's marriage was declared null and void on May 17th, 1536.
Had Katherine admitted a precontract to Dereham, it would have invalidated the marriage to Henry and excused her sexual alliance with Dereham. Once the affair with Culpeper was discovered and the Bill of Attainder passed against her, Henry had no reason to divorce/annul his marriage to KH. There were no children from this marriage to bastardize and she would soon be dead.
Ooops! sorry..I was using wikipedia as a reference since I had tidyed up my books for Christmas.
It's always bunnies.
3:27 pm
January 3, 2012
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Anyanka. Katherine Howard was the only one of Henry's Queen's to actually go to the block as Queen.. allegdely her last words were “I die a Queen but I would sooner die the wife of Thomas Culpepper”.
As for Smeton's death I stand corrected. I think that possibly that was what would have happened to him if he continued to deny that he's committed adultery with Anne and that by saying “yes” he had that Henry commuted his sentence to just beheading.
One really has to ask that why did Henry turn the world upside down for Anne only for him to turn inside out to get rid of her?
Why did he believe or choose to believe the lies about Anne?
It's something that I've kinda toyed with for a number of years to why Henry turned so violently against Anne.. There are 2 possible reasons in my opinion for this.
1. There had been a few bad Harvests since Anne had been Queen, therefore what little Rye and Wheat that was available to make the bread was damp. When Rye and Wheat get damp they grow mould (as does everything else) however that mould is highly toxic and when ingested can cause an halucingenic effect similar to LSD and therefore making a person highly succeptable to suggestion. Anne remember had a lot of enemies and therefore they would take any chance they could to pour poison down Henry's throat when possible.
2. The other possibility is that he was suffering with Porthia. Which again does very strange things to the phyche. I think that this one is a real possibility, as Porthia was within the blood line, his Great Grandfather Charles the Mad suffered with it. There were rumours that Margaret his sister passed the gene to her son James V who in turn passed it to Mary Queen of Scots, and she then passed it on to her son James V1 Scots/1 England. There is documentary evidence to support this. As you know Porthia is hereditary and appears very sporadically and the next time it appeared was in George 3rd.
I don't suppose we'll ever really know, but the love affair between Henry and Anne is the stuff of legends.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
8:21 pm
May 16, 2011
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Sharon said:
Mya-Elise,
That seemed to be the hook, wasn't it? Tell Henry you will give him a son and he is yours. He was obssessed with Anne, but he was more obssessed with having a son. I think Anne thoroughly dissappointed Henry. The promise of a living son was just not a promise she could keep. KOA could not give him a living son. But yeah, he kept believing. Henry would see a woman, and he would decide she's the one who will give him sons. Of course, when she doesn't, he just moves on to the next woman who catches his fancy, sure in his head that this new woman will be the “one.” If she promises him a son, all the better. It will be her fault if that promise is broken.
Yeah, and it just looks bad on his part, it makes him seem a bit…stupid. (Sorry if that insults anyone!)
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
9:28 pm
August 12, 2009
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Boleyn said:
Anyanka. Katherine Howard was the only one of Henry’s Queen’s to actually go to the block as Queen.. allegedly her last words were “I die a Queen but I would sooner die the wife of Thomas Culpepper”.
2. The other possibility is that he was suffering with Porthia. Which again does very strange things to the psyche. I think that this one is a real possibility, as Porthia was within the blood line, his Great Grandfather Charles the Mad suffered with it. There were rumours that Margaret his sister passed the gene to her son James V who in turn passed it to Mary Queen of Scots, and she then passed it on to her son James VI Scots/1 England. There is documentary evidence to support this. As you know Porthia is hereditary and appears very sporadically and the next time it appeared was in George 3rd.
Actually, I believe Anne was. She had to surrender her crown, but no mention was made of her title. And as her title was received as a gift from the king, annulling their marriage did not technically remove her title. Even after her execution, Cromwell referred to her in writing as “the late Queen”. Kathryn, on the other hand, was “demoted from her position as Queen on 22 November and formally indicted two days later”
( http://englishhistory.net/tudo…..iography )
Per the same source, they speculate that Culpeper's sentence was commuted to simple beheading because of “Culpeper's higher rank and personal service in his household.”
As for Henry, theories that he suffered from diabetes, brain damage from a fall, or porphyria continue to be debated. About the only theory disproved is that he suffered from syphilis. I found discussions on porphyria in the Royal family here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm…..7-0064.pdf
and a discussion (on Wikipedia, I'm sorry!) that QE2's cousin William may have suffered from it as well:
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
7:45 am
January 3, 2012
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Thank you for that information.. I also apoligize for my dreadful spelling, and puncuation.. I have a bash at it and for the most part apart from scrambling the brains of the reader I do manage to get my point across, I hope.
I have always thought that Anne went to the block as Marquess of Pembroke. Certainly she was stripped of the actual benefits and revenues that went with the title of Queen, but I think she may have been referred to as the sometime Queen of Henry rather than just Queen.
Yeah you are right about Henry's health issues, again this something that has been debated about for years, It has also been suggested that he was suffering with Mercury poisoning which again is something that does strange things to the phyche, but this was completely disproved as he was allegedly never treated with Mercury for anything. I don't suppose we will ever really know, unless we can invent a time machine and go back and live in the court during those times.
Culpepper was sentenced to the full horror of Hang Drawing and Quartering, but Henry commuted the sentence to beheading because despite everything Henry had a fondness for Culpepper who had nursed him and put up with his tantrums and had basically just been there when needed. I suppose it could be argued that Henry looked apon Culpepper as a bastard son. Again it's not something we will ever really know.
Anyway once again thank you for the information..
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
2:30 am
August 17, 2009
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Bella44 said:
I was wondering if Henry had Anne beheaded it was partly because he believed she was guilty and had committed adultery, whereas with Katherine of Aragon there was never any suggestion of such behaviour on her part?
In my opinion, it is quite a possibility Henry actually believed the crimes of the Queen.By the time the charges were trumped up, he would have been in a vulnerable state in regards to Anne: he was tired of her and looking for a way out of the marriage. I do not believe that Henry was such a tyrant (at this stage at least), that he would execute men he knew to be completely innocent. Especially considering that poor Smeaton was condemned to the full horror of having to be hung, drawn and quartered.
