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7:42 am
April 18, 2011
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Seeing as George Boleyn was executed on Tower Hill, I have been wondering if Anne would have actually known about her brothers death, would someone have informed her?
BoleynBlue xx
10:48 am
May 16, 2011
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I'm not exactly sure if Anne watched her brother die ( like in the tudors) but she did know. She knew her friends and her brother had to die, maybe she didn't know exactly when but she knew.
Actually at her trial after her final judgemnt it has been said that she made a speech and at the end of it she said that she wanted the assurance that she'd live an endless life in peace with those who were also convicted. It's also been said that after the death of those men and her brother she became hysterical and knew her time was soon….two days later.
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
12:03 pm
October 31, 2010
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Surely she would have been aware. I mean, his body WAS brought back to the Tower to be buried in the Chapel. I doubt she would have been able to see his actual execution. The Tower Hill execution site is still a pretty good distance from the Tower itself, and, even if she'd had a window that had a view of the site, I doubt that her view would have been very clear.
At this point, she'd all ready witnessed Henry execute Thomas More, Bishop Fisher, and other individuals, and does anyone truly doubt that Cardinal Wolsey would have gone the same way had he survived the trip to London? I think she realized that he was beyond clemency and there was no way that her brother or her friends were going to be pardoned. I think she still held out hope that he might simply have their marriage annulled and allow her to go free–I know I would have.
Also, the women who were her attendants in the Tower weren't exactly sympathetic to her. I'm sure they made sure to inform her of her brother's execution. Maybe that's catty, but it seems like there was no love lost between pro-Anne and anti-Anne factions.
"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"
1:00 pm
February 24, 2010
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Meg,
I'm sure those women told her of George's execution and waited with baited breath for her reaction. If that's being catty…so be it.
Her grief must have been unbearable.
I know the scene where she watches her brother die in The Tudors was inaccurate, but it was such a poignant scene. Anne's pain tore my heart out. That scene has stayed with me more than any other. Whether she showed that pain in real life or not, I believe she must have been devastated. It doesn't surprise me that by the time it was her turn to die, she was ready.
1:13 pm
October 31, 2010
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Sharon said:
Meg,
I'm sure those women told her of George's execution and waited with baited breath for her reaction. If that's being catty…so be it.
Her grief must have been unbearable.
I know the scene where she watches her brother die in The Tudors was inaccurate, but it was such a poignant scene. Anne's pain tore my heart out. That scene has stayed with me more than any other. Whether she showed that pain in real life or not, I believe she must have been devastated. It doesn't surprise me that by the time it was her turn to die, she was ready.
I agree. They just showed that episode on BBC America this past week and, even though it's the second or third time I've seen it, it still just rips at my heart. There was so much anguish in ND's portrayal of Anne during that scene–and the cry that she let out was unlike anything else I've ever heard. For that scene and the scene where Anne catches JS sitting on Henry's lap I have an abiding respect for Natalie Dormer. I think that George and Anne were truly close in reality, and to know that her brother was dead probably devastated her on multiple levels.
"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"
1:15 pm
May 16, 2011
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Sharon Anne witnessing her brother's execution in the Tudors tore my heart out too. It would've been horrible to see that especially with the knowledge of her's and her friends innocence. The whole situation is completely tragic and unfair.
If it were me waiting for my death and knowing of my brother and friends death…i would've been….there are no words to explain it. I admire Anne's bravery when she went laughed about her death and went out with dignity, i would've been crying and begging. She was a very brave women and Anne,Henry,William,Mark,and George did not deserve to die.
• Grumble all you like, this is how it’s going to be.
5:52 pm
August 12, 2009
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Mya said:
I'm not exactly sure if Anne watched her brother die ( like in the tudors) but she did know. She knew her friends and her brother had to die, maybe she didn't know exactly when but she knew.
Actually at her trial after her final judgemnt it has been said that she made a speech and at the end of it she said that she wanted the assurance that she'd live an endless life in peace with those who were also convicted. It's also been said that after the death of those men and her brother she became hysterical and knew her time was soon….two days later.
Part of her speech:
“…God hath taught me how to die, and He will strengthen my faith. As for my brother, and those others who are unjustly condemned, I would willingly suffer many deaths to deliver them, but since I see it pleases the King, I shall willingly accompany them in death, with this assurance: that I shall lead an endless life with them in peace.”
I believe that they are.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
6:30 pm
November 18, 2010
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MegC said:
Sharon said:
Meg,
I'm sure those women told her of George's execution and waited with baited breath for her reaction. If that's being catty…so be it.
Her grief must have been unbearable.
I know the scene where she watches her brother die in The Tudors was inaccurate, but it was such a poignant scene. Anne's pain tore my heart out. That scene has stayed with me more than any other. Whether she showed that pain in real life or not, I believe she must have been devastated. It doesn't surprise me that by the time it was her turn to die, she was ready.
I agree. They just showed that episode on BBC America this past week and, even though it's the second or third time I've seen it, it still just rips at my heart. There was so much anguish in ND's portrayal of Anne during that scene–and the cry that she let out was unlike anything else I've ever heard. For that scene and the scene where Anne catches JS sitting on Henry's lap I have an abiding respect for Natalie Dormer. I think that George and Anne were truly close in reality, and to know that her brother was dead probably devastated her on multiple levels.
I haven't watched the early series of The Tudors….
But I'm with both of you, those ladies must have been ordered to make Anne so totally vunerable and in despair….torture for Anne.
It's always bunnies.
12:02 am
May 19, 2011
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Anne was taken to apartments overlooking the execution of her friends and brother, as she could not see from where she was lodged. She was forced to watch and when escorted back to her own apartments was reported to be “much shaken”.
Do you think the love Henry had born her was a jealous love and that his insanity caused him to believe the lies he perhaps had invented? It does my head in trying to understand Henry's mind.. Sigh.
Perhaps Anne was a witch, I prefer to think of her as a bit of a Goddess.. Everything seemed to turn to ashes for Henry after she died. Maybe he had angered the universe and it was Karma who struck him down. I get some satisfaction imagining Anne by Henry's bedside seductively enquiring: “How is your leg, Henry?” or standing just behind the Seymour as she died mentioning the beloved son would die a child..”Was it worth it?”
I may just be revealing my own vindictive nature!
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
2:04 am
April 18, 2011
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So Anne was actually moved to watch the execution? This is even more cruel then someone telling her about George's execution.
3:49 am
June 7, 2010
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BoleynBlue said:
So Anne was actually moved to watch the execution? This is even more cruel then someone telling her about George's execution.
I don't think this happened in reality. In The Tudors show, Anne does witness her brother's execution. However, in real life, Anne was housed on the south side of the White Tower (now destroyed Royal Apartments), and could not have witnessed George's execution on Tower Hill.
Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but I doubt Kingston, Cromwell, or Henry would have permitted Anne to be moved around the Tower. It served no purpose to seeing her brother's death.
"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn
1:17 am
May 19, 2011
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She was escorted by Henry's order to lodgings overlooking tower green, and yes, she was forced to watch her friends and brother as they were executed. After the execution took place she was returned to her original apartments. It was on the walk back that it was reported: “The Lady seemed much shaken”.
The only purpose was to hurt her. Or to convince her the reality of the situation; using this and the threat of being burnt at the stake to agree that her marriage was null and Elizabeth illegitimate.. I'm not sure when she signed that document however..
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
2:10 am
May 19, 2011
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DoB, have a read of Weir's The Lady in The Tower”, I got my copy from the Tower of London, so it has special significance for me- it's a great book and there's the info re Anne watching her brother and friends executed.
The Tudors series is probably the most accurate that I have seen- It seems to have the right info, quotes etc. I can usually happily sit through many Tudor inspired movies informing friends and Hubby how it really happened- which explains why I find myself on my own to watch these things!!
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
4:18 am
June 7, 2010
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E said:
DoB, have a read of Weir's The Lady in The Tower”, I got my copy from the Tower of London, so it has special significance for me- it's a great book and there's the info re Anne watching her brother and friends executed.
The Tudors series is probably the most accurate that I have seen- It seems to have the right info, quotes etc. I can usually happily sit through many Tudor inspired movies informing friends and Hubby how it really happened- which explains why I find myself on my own to watch these things!!
E,
Yes, I've read Weir's book, and it it full of inaccuracies, assumptions, etc. If you want a serious study on Anne's life, please read Eric Ives's definitive biography.
I assume you are refering to the passage on page 241, half-way down the page. Well, since the reference comes from Chapuys, I would say it's questionable. Chapuys should never be referenced as serious source for information on Anne. He was her worst enemy, and would take any opportunity to degradate her character.
So, I cannot believe this happened. Why? It served no purpose, and there would have been some correspondence betwen Kingston and Cromwell for approval. For me, it's a romantic imagine of Anne watching her brother die, but there is no hard evidence to support Chapuys's comments.
You mentioned in your previous post about Henry's orders. Do you have nay information about that?
As for The Tudors show. I am as much a fan as anyone, but I do not take it as accurate. It did a great job of dramatising Henry's reign. Yes, they did use quotes, etc. from history, but I do not take it as seruious study. I stick to historians for that.
I am sorry if I have offened you in any way. That was not my intention, but simply to express my view point.
I want to clarify that I do not hate Weir. I read her books, but I do not take them seriously. There are many problems with her sources and analysis of information. But, read them because she is a good writer, just not a trained historian, and be aware of the inherent problems that run the gamut of her books.
"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn
9:46 pm
May 19, 2011
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DoB, I don't know how you thought I was offended by you, this site is great for expressing all our opinions!
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
12:15 am
May 19, 2011
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BoleynBlue said:
So Anne was actually moved to watch the execution? This is even more cruel then someone telling her about George's execution.
It's such a horrible thing to do to ones partner- it almost made me question Henry's involvement in her downfall as it seems to be the action of a vindictive, jealous man who believed she had had affairs and was seeking to hurt her- but with Henry, who knows?!
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
12:19 am
April 18, 2011
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I agree E, although I also believe that he wanted rid of Anne before these accusations came to light. But I do wonder if he felt a spark of jealousy or not at the thought of Anne with another man.
1:17 am
May 19, 2011
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I read on this site that there was an article expressing an interest in digging up H8 to study his DNA for signs of insanity… I think it's a great idea! I'm with you Boleyn Blue, he wanted rid of her. Sigh. I think he gets away with far too much being blamed on his advisers… And Anne did seek out Cranmer four days before her arrest to ask him to look to the welfare of Elizabeth should anything happen to her- so she knew something was up..
"A fresh young damsel, who could trip and go"
12:46 pm
February 24, 2010
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E said:
BoleynBlue said:
So Anne was actually moved to watch the execution? This is even more cruel then someone telling her about George's execution.
It's such a horrible thing to do to ones partner- it almost made me question Henry's involvement in her downfall as it seems to be the action of a vindictive, jealous man who believed she had had affairs and was seeking to hurt her- but with Henry, who knows?!
Hi Ladies:
This is just my opinion, but in order for me to believe anything Chapuys reports, I have to be able to verify it with other court reports. The only one who claimed that Anne watched her brother die was Chapuys. He was always claiming he had inside information. It was usually gossip and usually wrong. Chapuys hated Anne. He would report every piece of venomous gossip he heard and somtimes, again in my opinion, he invented stories. (i.e. he claimed one of the ladies who attended Anne during a miscarriage had told him the fetus was a monster. There was not one other report about this. He reported it and it was false.) There are many examples of his bad reporting.
Of course, there are times the reports he made were true. The reason I know this is because I can find other people who have reported the same thing. The most honest thing that Chapuys said about Anne was that he did not believe her to be guilty of the charges against her. “condemned on presumption and not evidence, without any witness or valid confession,” was his conclusion. That was the conclusion of reports by others as well.
Weir is an interesting writer, but she weaves her own interpretations into her books. She puts in possibilities and probabilities which people take for fact. I have read “Lady in the Tower.” It reads like a novel and it is enjoyable. However, if you would like to read a book about Anne that deals with what is actually known about Anne, I would definitely suggest that you try Eric Ive's book, “The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn.”
4:18 pm
November 18, 2010
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Sharon said:
E said:
BoleynBlue said:
So Anne was actually moved to watch the execution? This is even more cruel then someone telling her about George's execution.
It's such a horrible thing to do to ones partner- it almost made me question Henry's involvement in her downfall as it seems to be the action of a vindictive, jealous man who believed she had had affairs and was seeking to hurt her- but with Henry, who knows?!
Hi Ladies:
This is just my opinion, but in order for me to believe anything Chapuys reports, I have to be able to verify it with other court reports. The only one who claimed that Anne watched her brother die was Chapuys. He was always claiming he had inside information. It was usually gossip and usually wrong. Chapuys hated Anne. He would report every piece of venomous gossip he heard and somtimes, again in my opinion, he invented stories. (i.e. he claimed one of the ladies who attended Anne during a miscarriage had told him the fetus was a monster. There was not one other report about this. He reported it and it was false.) There are many examples of his bad reporting.
Of course, there are times the reports he made were true. The reason I know this is because I can find other people who have reported the same thing. The most honest thing that Chapuys said about Anne was that he did not believe her to be guilty of the charges against her. “condemned on presumption and not evidence, without any witness or valid confession,” was his conclusion. That was the conclusion of reports by others as well.
Weir is an interesting writer, but she weaves her own interpretations into her books. She puts in possibilities and probabilities which people take for fact. I have read “Lady in the Tower.” It reads like a novel and it is enjoyable. However, if you would like to read a book about Anne that deals with what is actually known about Anne, I would definitely suggest that you try Eric Ive's book, “The Life and Death of Anne Boleyn.”
I agree, Sharon. Chapuys was very biased with regards to Anne. He was definately the “Spin Doctor” of his age. IIRC he wasn't overly impressed with Jane Seymour either.
However all writers interpret the available data to fit thier own thoughts or even what they think the readers want see She-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named..and Warnicke. That and the whole Sex Sells tm
My major problem with Weir is the lack of notations.I find it hard to cross-refernce her works with other writers which drives me insane or more insane as I have 3 children…
I much prefer Ives but I find a lot of Starkey's personal views on women …….old-fashioned for want of a better word.
It's always bunnies.
