If my lousy memory serves, Sharon I believe the same thing was said of Elizabeth, that one of her shoulders appeared to be higher than the other.
I think it was possibly the Spanish Ambassador who said it too. You know how the swings and roundabout of court gossip blacken first one name and then another.. Bear in mind that although England was considered a Protestant country for the most part Fat Arse still followed the Catholic doctorine and beliefs. it changed of course when E6 came to the throne, into something radically different from what his father believed, so of course the haters of change from what faith or beliefs Fat arse followed would bound to try and make out that E6 was deformed or mentality unstable or some other hogwash and of course Mary too would have rumours about her having a deformity etc bandied about. The same hogwash came out yet again in Mary reign when she wanted to drag England back to Rome and the England of her youth, so of course it was Elizabeth who bore the brunt of the rumours of deformity. I’m not too sure but I think Philip or one of his buddies said that he could bear to be around Mary because she smelled of rotten flesh and had sypthlitic crusts around her nose and mouth.

I think another horrible thing said about Elizabeth was by the Duke on Anjou or Orleans? He said that Elizabeth “was sour faced old woman with a bad leg.” the bag leg bit was in reference to an ulcer she alledgely had on one of her legs.
Larry, Lard arse was a very Romantic man you know when he was in the right mood and as long as the lady was downwind from so she couldn’t smell his stink. He was as romantic as an exocet missile and about as deadly as one too….LOL;)

Boleyn said

I think another horrible thing said about Elizabeth was by the Duke on Anjou or Orleans? He said that Elizabeth “was sour faced old woman with a bad leg.” the bag leg bit was in reference to an ulcer she alledgely had on one of her legs.
Larry, Lard arse was a very Romantic man you know when he was in the right mood and as long as the lady was downwind from so she couldn’t smell his stink. He was as romantic as an exocet missile and about as deadly as one too….LOL;)

Lorna, do you think that the pampering and cajoling H7 gave to H8 in his early years helped to spoil the lad to the extent that he (H8) carried those feeling of superiority and ‘God-given’ appointment on into his adult life to such an extent, that he could never get over those feelings? It seems that in his early years he was too protected and seemed mostly to ‘get his own way’ in most everything. His rotten personality was not for lack of an education, and he seemed to be able to understand most of his ‘royal’ governmental duties quite well, but in his personal life, (love life in particular) he seems to have had all sorts of problems. ……just my thoughts……

Very true Olga. Before Arthur’s death Junior was seen as pretty much insignificant, yeah he was the spare heir, but very few spares ever became King. I rather think that Junior respected his father and his brother, but there was no love lost between them.
Certainly H7 limited Junior’s friends and curtailed many of the things Junior like to do. Jousting was out that was big no no. but H7 understood Junior’s need for the thrill of the chase so to speak and allowed Junior to participate in Quintaine (riding at the ring) instead, and altogether very tame version of jousting.
Junior must have felt like a caged animal, and he probably resented H7 and saw his death as a great relief, for now he could go free and do exactly what he wanted, when he wanted and with whom ever he chose to do it with and there was no one to stop him.

Sharon, I just finished “Winter King” by Thomas Penn, so I guess I put too much stock into some of what he wrote about H7 and H8’s relationship. Perhaps Penn had too little info to back up what he believed about some of that relationship.

Face ache, became obsessed in his later life with hawking, a sport (for want of a better word) which held no attraction for him in his youth. I believe he tried to encourage Edward in it too.
It could possibly be that face ache had a lot of pent up agression to do with his father’s restraints on him. To not be able to do the things he wanted to must have seen like the old red rag to a bull. The more his father told him no the more he wanted to do it.. Typical kid really I suppose.
Then of course when his father died he was finally free to do all the things he wanted to do and to hell with the consequences. In some ways I can understand why H Senior put restrictions on Junior sporting activities, but at the same time it was a bad thing to do too, because if Junior had gone out and got a few bloody noses etc, he perhaps wouldn’t have run riot so much when H Senior died. I really do feel that his marriage to K.O.A was partly to do with the fact his father had told him that he shouldn’t marry her, and he married her anyway to 1 stick 2 fingers up at his father, and possibly his grandmother as well and 2 to show off to his freinds that he was old enough to choose his own wife and 3 he wanted to be seen as the Golden Sod I God, on a snow white horse rescuing the damsel in distress.

I think it was partly his devil may care tempestous nature that caused him so many problems he acted rashly and when things went tits up it was always someone elses fault.
His first jousting acciden came about because he was trying to prove that he was the best of the best etc. He was simply a very bad loser in games of chance, be that jousting or tennis or whatever sport he was competing in. It would have been good if he had lost a few times and perhaps got some good hiding on his backside when he was kid, instead of being pampered to and excuses found to why he behaved like he did etc.
His freinds would have done him more good if he had lost once in a while instead of letting him win all the time.

Mind I suppose we should excuse face ache’s behaviour really, It wasn’t really his fault. You see he had a terrible childhood, well he was a test tube baby.. Yeah honestly he was.. so of course all the other kids used to extract the urine out of him.. Can’t have been very easy for him to know that all his freinds knew that his father was a onanist.

Thanks for edumacting another colonist Boleyn…

Anyanka said

Thanks for edumacting another colonist Boleyn…

“Edumacate; An uneducated way people, including Redneck’s, Hill-Billy’s and Feral people use in place of the word Education to sound smarter than they may be.” From the Urban Dictionary.

Well, I’ve been called both “Redneck and Hillbilly”; so I guess if the shoe fits………..
Being born and reared in Kentucky, guess those terms pretty well describe me!!!

Is Kentucky where the Dukes of Hazard lived?

Actually Sharon I have yet to read Winter King. He made some dumb remark about Shakespeare not writing a play on Henry VII because he was too onerous or something and I thought it was going to be another biased boring “miserly Henry” bio. I’ll get around to it.

I don’t think H7 was a miserly King certainly history has seemed to recorded him as such. The wars of the Roses had all but destroyed England moneywise, the treasury was all but dry, the bankers (for want of a better word) were scraping the bottom of a well scraped money barrel.
So from that point of view H7 was keen to get money flowing into England etc.. If the country was skint, how could he possibly expect Spain, France and all the other known european countries, to actually take the Tudor reign seriously.
The quick fix solution at first was to tax his nobels and get those who were fighting against him at Bosworth to cough up the cash to save their necks.. This money H7 would invest and keep his fingers, toes and eyes crossed to hope that his investment would bear fruit. I think he was a firm but fair ruler, which has of course been interpreted as being misery and tight fisted. Most people home and abroad probably felt that the tudor dynasty was just a simple flash in the pan.
I should imagine that William (the Bastard) the Conqueror faced the same sort of opinion, when he defeated Harold at Hastings in 1066. “Oh it will never last the Normans are just a flash in the pan, the people of Britain won’t tolerate him and his kind for long, we don’t like foriegn invaders” sort of thing.
H7 had some preety big shoes to fill and had a lot to prove too. It wasn’t enough that he won Bosworth he had to prove that he was good enough for the job which he had stepped into. A tall order for an unknown Welsh Milksop as Richard called Henry.
Marrying EOY was a good move. I think he did genuinely love her and although he appeared to be quite cold to some people I believe. His treatment of COA certainly shows he was capable of being a cold hearted man, and I actually wonder what made he turn against her when he had fought so hard for her to marry Arthur in the first place. Is it possible that from what I can gather H7 wasn’t really too happy about her marrying Henry in the first place, after Isabella’s death, she became a little less of a good bet for marriage to Henry. Weknow Henry Junior repudiated his marriage contract at one point. But I’m wondering if H7 treatment of her was 1 down to grief because less then a year after Arthur had died EOY died and he perhaps blamed her KOA in some way.. 2 If he made her feel worthless and unwanted she would just give up any hope of marriage with Junior and go home. To meat least the black spot in H7 reign was his treatment of COA, it was unexcusable in my opinion. so minus a few hundred brownie points for H7 there.