Hi back Jenny and what a fantastic story.  You couldn't have chosen a better role model, and especially one that shared your red hair!! I have always held her in high esteem myself, I guess because she managed to not only be a great leader in her own right, but at the time, remained unmarried despite the criticism. I know that's not unusual now, but in the 16th century — WOW! (I mean, even Victoria was required to start thinking of a husband and did so; I was kind of surprised — when I saw Young Victoria with Emily Blunt — that she hinted that she might do as Elizabeth and remain unwed. You have to wonder what would have happened in history if she had done so and a few things come to mind, but that's another story). Anyway Jenny, I appreciate you sharing that with us. I didn't come from a large family, but books and movies became my best friends due to me feeling like an outsider as a kid. Looking back, I'm glad it turned out that way or I might have missed a lot!

Oh and the Henry/Catherine dinner at Hampton Court (which I love) sounds great!

Claire said:

I was lucky enough to go have a sneak peak at the reserve collection at the Mary Rose Museum the other week. It was incredible looking at all the everyday objects that had belonged to real Tudor sailors – tiny dice, combs, shoes, bits of clothing, games boards, bowls with initials shakily carved on them. It really blew my mind.

Also I've never felt closer to Anne than I did at Hever Castle at the tour. We were allowed to dine one night in the Castle dining room, which is roped off in the day time, and that was an amazing experience. I kept looking around and thinking about Anne eating there.

Hi Claire — the way you felt at the Mary Rose Museum I felt when I was walking around Nelson's Victory. My friend even mentioned that you could still smell the gunpowder down below (my sinuses were clogged up and I couldn't), so it wasn't too hard imagining the battle at Trafalgar!

I fell in love with Hever. Have only been there once (back in 2000), and it was a cool, rainy day. I walked from the rail station, stopped by the church where Sir Thomas is buried, then spent 4 hours at the castle, inside and out. I kept trying to imagine what it was like for her as a child, and then being sent away to France, then coming home again. You wonder about her dreams, her hopes, what she may have imagined for her future possibly when she was engaged to Henry Percy, and then later involved with Henry. Oooo…to get to dine there. Wow!

You know, I always forget that Anne of Cleves lived there, and I guess Elizabeth visited there too. You have to wonder what she must have thought, walking through the same gardens and halls that her mother once did.

Jenny said:

St. Paul's Cathedral!!!  What a wonderful building although from what I understand Charless II and Chrsitopher Wren had a number of detractors at the time.  I would love to get up to the Whispering gallery but I am a coward when it comes to heights – Last time I was there, though I was really tempted, but it was the thought of coming down the stairs that frightened me more (I had my left wrist in plaster at the time) and remembering when I once climbed the Tor at Glastonbury on a very windy day and almost did a “Mary Poppins” on my way down – Fortunately a very kind gentleman assisted in my passage.

Back to St. Paul's, did any of you know that the original St. Paul's was used as stables during the Civil War by theb Roundheads.  Another claim to fame is that only two Princes of Wales have been married in that Catherdal – Prince Arthur to Catherine of Aragon (6 months later he was dead) and Prince Charles to Diana (she lasted longer but unfortunately she also died)

Hey Jenny — didn't know that about only two Princes of Wales being married there.

I made it up to the Whispering Gallery back in 2000, but the friend who was traveling with me at the time refused to try the experiment of seeing if you can hear another's voice if you're on the opposite side. This last time (2009), I had another friend with me and it was wonderful sharing the experience with a fellow Christian who could appreciate not only the magnificent architecture, but the spiritual side as well. (We both also paid our respects to Admiral Nelson since we're fans of his).

There's a spot near the gardens on one side of the cathedral where they have a drawing of the current church, as well as an outline of the original St. Paul's (prior to the Great Fire), which I guess would have been the one that saw Arthur and Catherine of Aragon's wedding…and I think Elizabeth may have held a celebration of thanksgiving for the Armada defeat there too. I think there's also a model of the old St. Paul's inside too. I can only imagine what it looked like as a beautiful medieval church, but the current one is awesome! 

I've been to the Cotswolds (LOVED THEM!) but didn't make it to Worcester although I've read about it in the past. After reading your post, I'll have to keep it in mind for my next long trip. (I get to retire in about 3 years from my position of what is coming up now on 24 years! We can retire in 27 . Since we can only take 2 weeks annual vacation at a time, I was limited in 2009 and could only stay in England a week, compared to 2 weeks in 2005 and 3 in 2000. So I'll have to wait until retirement to celebrate with a much longer holiday!!!)

Hi again Jenny (and everyone):

And of course you mention Wales! I think I mentioned it on another thread, but I fell in love with Wales when I read the book Crown in Candlelight about Owen Tudor and Katherine of Valois. I also remembered that Henry VII had — to strengthen his links to the English throne — attempted to show that he was descended from Uther Pendragon and therefore King Arthur. So Wales is on my list of places to visit. Like I mentioned in my original post, I stayed at Thornbury Castle and didn't realize how close I was to the border or I would have made arrangements to check things out!

Worcester — Lea and Perrins! LOVE Lea and Perrins! But when I have more time, when I can visit again in say 3 or 4 years, I'd like to see Glastonbury and Tintagil. Went to Stonehenge in 2000 on one of those day trips out of London, and found myself on Salisbury Plain in a driving rain storm. Everyone wanted to head back to the coach, but I said it had taken me my whole life to make it to England, and I wasn't going to let a little rain and wind stop me!! LOL (On that same trip we also went to Bath for the afternoon — AND IT SNOWED! In APRIL! So we had rain at Stonehenge, snow at Bath, and sunshine when we got back to London….Reminded me of home LOL).

I think it's wonderful that you love sharing your passion for your country with others. I've been such an Anglophile my whole life and have had such good-natured “arguments” with the very few Francophiles I've known. But it's been wonderful visiting those places I had read about or seen in pictures since I was a kid. I guess that's why I started this thread!

Oh! One more “close to you” experience which I forgot. When I went to Westminster Abbey, I was curious about the tomb of Katherine of Valois. I had read that at one time, it was in such poor condition, you could see her corpse, and diarist Samuel Pepys allegedly boasted that he had been able to reach in, take the body and fondle it so he could say he had embraced or made love to a queen. (And boy oh boy if that's true, that crosses into a WHOLE other realm). I asked one of the guides whether her tomb had been repaired; repeated the story (the guide seemed to believe it was accurate), and he said that yes, it had been repaired. I told him how fascinated I was with her and her connection to the Tudors, so he suggested I go to the Abbey library and ask for more information. He said that when I knocked (since it's not open to the public, or wasn't in 2000), let them know my reasons and they'd let me in. Sure enough they did. One of the librarians gave me a translation of a French biography on Katherine, and I spent the next couple of hours reading it. Yeah, here I am in London, in a library, when others are out touring about! LOL But hey, that's me.

But hey I'm weird.  When I was at St. George's Chapel, I asked a guide how many people had access to the area where Henry VIII is buried. The guide said only a select few including the Queen and the Prince of Wales. And I actually said, “Do you think they'd consider letting an American Anglophile who has been in love with the Tudors forever take a peek? With a supervised escort of course?” LOL The guide smiled, said she'd never even had a Brit ask that of her, and politely said she wished she could get me a way, but nah. Oh well — I figured it didn't hurt trying!

Sorry this is so long. The more I write the more I start remembering other things, but I'll save that for later!

Hi Jenny —

I wasn't familiar with Paxton House but now? LOL Wow.

I love the story of Owen Tudor and Katherine of Valois — it was almost a fairy tale story (the princess/Queen and the “commoner” — I know Owen was supposed to have had some aristocratic blood) but with such a bittersweet ending. I know that neither of them could imagine what their love would end up producing, which is likely why I found their story so incredible.

You are definitely right about the tour guides. I think most of them were floored with me being American and asking some of the questions that I did. I got into some great conversations with guides at Windsor Castle, Leeds Castle, Warwick Castle, Sudeley Castle and Hatfield House. At Warwick, a guide let me snap a couple of quick pictures of a pair of beautiful green gloves that belonged to Elizabeth (I was stunned by how long those fingers were! I mean, I had heard she had those long, tapered fingers she was so proud of, but to see the gloves she wore — fantastic!). At Sudeley, when we were in one of the family rooms, I told one of the guides that the current lady of the house shared my home state of Kentucky, a fact which made him smile (that's a whole other story too about my fellow Kentuckian). He pointed out a wedding photo of Her Ladyship's son and a very lovely young woman, then informed me that the young man (this was in 2000) had recently married a Hawaiian. The guide chuckled and added, “We love your American stock. You're still so young. Good to have one of you in the bloodline!” I just laughed back.

And then came Hatfield. That was during my “Tudor Pilgrimmage” of 2000 and it was my last day in England. On Saturday I'd spent a partially rainy day at Anne's Hever, and now on Sunday I was visiting the “home” of her daughter. I'd walked out onto the main grounds, found the replacement tree, then sat under it trying to imagine when the actual tree stood there and wondering if I could will myself into some dimension and witness those moments when Elizabeth learned she was queen. (My baby sister was born on that day — November 17th).  Okay I know the house there now isn't the original (I did get to peep into the original Great Hall), but it was a chance to see one of Elizabeth's portraits — I think the Rainbow Portrait (one of my favorites), then head into one area where her letter to Mary was on display. I believe it was the first time it had been put on public display, but in 2000, it was I believe the Millennium year so the whole country had a load of things on display or you were given access to many locations that had previously been blocked. So I'm analyzing the letter, remembering the background of the story, reading every word and admiring Elizabeth's courage in writing it, and a guide and I started talking and she saw that I knew Elizabeth quite well….Which is probably why she looked around and seeing we were alone, asked if I wanted to take a picture of the Great Hall from where we were (it was a GREAT view). I said “Are you kidding?” She said “No, no, go ahead.” So I got near one of the windows and snapped off a few.  *sigh* THAT was sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!

Worst experience: with one exception (I won't lump all of them into the same category because I hope this isn't always the case) the Beefeaters at the Tower were not only rude but condescending. If you spoke with some variation of an American accent or an Australian accent, everything was dumbed down and they behaved as though they were talking to a child or someone mentally handicapped. I know they get a load of stupid questions, but if someone asks a good one, they shouldn't be put down simply because they're not English. The Beefeater that led our group was giving some commentary, and I leaned over to my friend at the time to whisper that there was actually more to it or that his facts might have been off. He caught me whispering to her and called me out, and asked me to say out loud what I was talking about. That made me angry anyway (for all he knew I was asking her where she wanted to go for lunch), but I repeated it and he proceeded in telling me that of course an American would get it wrong. Which didn't go over well with the Americans in the group from the way they mumbled, and didn't go over with some of the Aussies either! (Bless 'em). It didn't help afterwards when another one got rude when — in one of the towers — I asked about a wall inscription allegedly made by Robert Dudley. Or (going back to that first Beefeater) he seemed surprised that we all wanted to see where the three Queens were buried.

I'm glad the happier times have outweighed the poor experiences, and I've rambled long enough…again! LOL