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9:36 pm
January 3, 2012
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Maggyann said
I am probably going out on a limb here, and a thin shaky one at that but as far as nightclubs go I have to ask what else do girls expect these days when they are dressed in less than I wear on the beach? They are going to a place where they know copious amounts of alcohol will be consumed by males, females and in betweeners alike. They know that a strapless top, micro mini skirt, thong and long boots adorning a tanned (ahem) body topped with long hair which has been ironed to within an inch of its life is the visual equivilent of standing under a lamp post chewing gum and staring at male drivers cruising past. Then they have the audacity to be ‘offended’ when a male acts like a male acts. If a female is old enough to enter a nightclub then surely she is also old enough to know that men are easily distracted/attracted and most of not all of their libido operates on visual stimulus so why go out dressed for sex then be shocked that a male at some point in the night and probably under the influence of alcohol and equally drunken mates, responds to the visual sexual stimuli. The honest truth is they dress provocatively to provoke a response added to which they drink alcohol and lose all sense of decorum. I am not saying quite baldly that girls ask for ‘it’ because they don’t necessarily but they do NOT protect themselves from ‘it’. They aim to provoke the males then cry foul when the male responds.
I know, I ‘ve been around a while, there is a train of thought which says a woman should be able to walk the streets naked if she wants and not be seen as sexual. Fine, be as PC as you want but personally I think that is the most stupid argument there is.Actually maggie I quite agree some woman do tend to open themselves up to sexist behaviour by the way the are dressed. Only a feww weeks back I was having this self same conversation with a freind of mine. He said that although some of the clothing woman wear is sexy, when they go round with a pair of knickers that look like a pair of bootlaces tied together and a bra which looks like two corn plasters stuck over their nipples they are seriously asking for trouble. A woman can dress sexily but still be reserved if that makes sence.. There was a woman in the paper a few weeks back who was complaining that all the nightclubs in her home town had barred her because of the way she was dressed. Looking at the pictures you could see why..
A bit like saying from your bed in intensive care ‘but the green man was showing when I crossed, I had right of way, it’s not fair’ after being knocked down and almost killed by a runaway truck which has suffered from brake failure.
I am sorry I just know I have offended people but honestly we all male or female have to take responsibility for ourselves. Putting yourself in danger and then crying foul is IMO extremely immature.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
9:42 pm
June 7, 2011
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Boleyn said
Maggyann said
I am probably going out on a limb here, and a thin shaky one at that but as far as nightclubs go I have to ask what else do girls expect these days when they are dressed in less than I wear on the beach? They are going to a place where they know copious amounts of alcohol will be consumed by males, females and in betweeners alike. They know that a strapless top, micro mini skirt, thong and long boots adorning a tanned (ahem) body topped with long hair which has been ironed to within an inch of its life is the visual equivilent of standing under a lamp post chewing gum and staring at male drivers cruising past. Then they have the audacity to be ‘offended’ when a male acts like a male acts. If a female is old enough to enter a nightclub then surely she is also old enough to know that men are easily distracted/attracted and most of not all of their libido operates on visual stimulus so why go out dressed for sex then be shocked that a male at some point in the night and probably under the influence of alcohol and equally drunken mates, responds to the visual sexual stimuli. The honest truth is they dress provocatively to provoke a response added to which they drink alcohol and lose all sense of decorum. I am not saying quite baldly that girls ask for ‘it’ because they don’t necessarily but they do NOT protect themselves from ‘it’. They aim to provoke the males then cry foul when the male responds.
I know, I ‘ve been around a while, there is a train of thought which says a woman should be able to walk the streets naked if she wants and not be seen as sexual. Fine, be as PC as you want but personally I think that is the most stupid argument there is.Actually maggie I quite agree some woman do tend to open themselves up to sexist behaviour by the way the are dressed. Only a feww weeks back I was having this self same conversation with a freind of mine. He said that although some of the clothing woman wear is sexy, when they go round with a pair of knickers that look like a pair of bootlaces tied together and a bra which looks like two corn plasters stuck over their nipples they are seriously asking for trouble. A woman can dress sexily but still be reserved if that makes sence.. There was a woman in the paper a few weeks back who was complaining that all the nightclubs in her home town had barred her because of the way she was dressed. Looking at the pictures you could see why..
A bit like saying from your bed in intensive care ‘but the green man was showing when I crossed, I had right of way, it’s not fair’ after being knocked down and almost killed by a runaway truck which has suffered from brake failure.
I am sorry I just know I have offended people but honestly we all male or female have to take responsibility for ourselves. Putting yourself in danger and then crying foul is IMO extremely immature.
LOL! So you are saying that men cannot control themselves, and that a girl in a skimpy outfit is no worse than a wh*re?! That in its self is sexist. A man can walk down the street in nothing but shorts and pass though grope free. I am not condoning wearing next to nothing, I prefer modesty BUT as a teenager I did wear a cropped top on occasion (Which showed off my midriff) with jeans and NO I was not asking for male attention I wore it because it was baking outside and I had the confidence to do so. Judging others by their appearance is also immature…
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
10:55 pm
November 18, 2010
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Elliemarianna said
LOL! So you are saying that men cannot control themselves, and that a girl in a skimpy outfit is no worse than a wh*re?! That in its self is sexist. A man can walk down the street in nothing but shorts and pass though grope free. I am not condoning wearing next to nothing, I prefer modesty BUT as a teenager I did wear a cropped top on occasion (Which showed off my midriff) with jeans and NO I was not asking for male attention I wore it because it was baking outside and I had the confidence to do so. Judging others by their appearance is also immature…
Exactly….Women have been attacked and raped wearing burkhas. There was a rash of nun-rapes in Montreal a few years ago. Both groups of ladies known for more modest dressing.
14 yo daughter got cat-called the other day by a group of 6 men who were very graphic about how she was turning them on with her Catholic Schoolgirl clothes(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw…..lGirlsRule). Normally her skirt is down to her knees but she’s grown about 6 inches in height in the past few months and I’m not buying her a new skirt for the last 2 weeks of term. Is she to blame for thier remarks? Of course not, they were adults who should know better.
If a man can’t, or more likely won’t, control himself, he shouldn’t be out on the streets. Women shouldn`t be shamed and marginalised by what they wear.
Rape isn’t purely about sex. It’s about power and control as well. That’s why women and men of all ages, babies upto grand-parent ages get raped. That’s why conquering armies rape.
It's always bunnies.
10:07 am
May 7, 2010
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I knew I would ‘upset’ people. I was not talking about rape per se I was talking about being adult, recognising dangers, being responsible and stuff like that. Rape has nothing to do with sex it is a power trip. I was discussing inappropriate behaviour in nightclubs by drunken males and the contribution to such episodes by usually skimpily dressed equally intoxicated females.
Everyone can and should ‘control themselves’ but not all have the maturity to do so and when alcohol, loud thumping music and peer pressure come into play all sense goes out the window. Women have as much responsibility to ‘control’ themselves as men do. Just because something ‘should be’ doesn’t mean it is. The world over, through all the centuries, males have been driven by their sex drives, the females have preened and adorned themselves to be attractive to the male.
There is no excuse for rape and yes in a perfect world a woman could walk down the street naked with no problems but this is not a perfect world and that is one of the first things we have to realise as we gain maturity. Individually we have to assess dangers and how to avoid or negate them. Knowing there will be drunken, puerile males crammed into a room with flashing lights, brain numbing thumping music, screaming, people egging each other on, possibly some drug fuelled euphoria and all the rest it has to take a pretty stupid or brave female to enter dressed in less than she wears to bed. Stupid because her very appearance has been knowingly calculated to inflame the said males and brave because she is going to be looked at as meat, spoken to as meat and treated as meat.
Taking offence is all very well (and understandable) but surely the female has contributed to the situation?
Women are increasingly objectified in a sense but by themselves. Women are womens own worst enemies in many ways. Many young ladies acknowledge that they dress as much to be more outrageous and daring than other females and so to outdo them as they do to attract men. Females know flashing their boobs and bum cheeks will attract male attention. Outfits are planned down to the last detail for a night out so with all this foresight and planning why be shocked when the result is the one aimed for? Any female who claims she is dressed in a frock that is all of 15″ top to hem without the intention of attracting male attention is lying.
To be treated with respect a person first has to respect themselves and make that apparent to the world. We have all been young and followed fashion. We have all had our stupid moments. We have all been in nasty situations on occasion but at some point we have all had to (or will have to) face up to the fact that we contributed in some measure to any uncomfortable episodes whether by behaviour, appearance, lack of awareness, drunkeness or whatever.
I am not talking about the woman walking along the street and getting dragged into bushes and raped I am talking about women getting drunk in pubs and bars, falling off stools, wrapping themselves round strangers and all the rest then being ‘offended’ when some bloke talks to their boobs or slaps their bum or worse.
Knowing how men are programmed and saying well they shouldn’t be like that doesn’t make it okay to ignore the knowledge and do your own thing only to complain about it later.
I am sorry to offend anyone but I honestly do think the biggest problem is the lack of personal responsibility. Get out there and have a great time but be safe. The only way to be truly safe is to be in control of yourself and aware of the signals you are giving out just as much as you are aware of the ‘offensiveness’ directed at you by the men (and sometimes other women to be fair) around you.
Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60
1:09 pm
April 9, 2011
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I wa watching a light news program tonight and they had a story about a women’s gird iron league that was taking off. Why is this news because it’s the women play in their underwear. And apparently the women choose to play like that. If that’s not objectifying women and women allowing themselves to be sexual objects I don’t know what is. And men, let’s be honest if you were going to watch the skill of the women they can still be dressed in football gear. Hell, if it turns you on to watch woman crash tackle one another surely your thrill would still occur with them clothed. The only way I can see this as being ok is if there is a league where men were made to run around in boxer shorts only.
The peice actually reminded me of the hypocrisy of Beach Volleyball. Apparently women are made to play in crop top and bikini bottoms, but the men have to play in board shorts and a singlet. Personally I think that sport should be advertising sun safety not sex appeal and discrimination. Cause you just know the Federation would try to claim the men have to have to wear singlets for sun safety.
@Maggyann – I understand what you are saying. Especially those stupid girls who dress to show off their assets leaving nothing to imagination, get drunk off their face, throw themselves at anything with a Y chromosome and then get all shocked when the fella responds in a way befitting the behaviour. I would have the same problem with a male doing, and I know of males who do the male equivalent and then get all hurt when treated like a piece of meat. If you choose that type of approach to your life, fully accept the possible consequences (excluding illegal consequences which can never be donconded). And on the other foot, idiots (drunk or not) shouldn’t fall for the other idiots who are behaving like that.
8:41 pm
February 24, 2010
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I dress to please myself. We used to go out, have drinks, and dance the night away. I don’t think we were asking for it. That’s a very male point of view. If you’re in a bar, enjoying time with your friends and minding your own business, not paying attention to the leering drunks, you can still get smacked on the butt or grabbed as you are heading to the ladies room. Men who do that see all women as sex objects. I don’t care what you are wearing. That’s all I’m saying.
BTW, you have not offended me in the least.
2:22 pm
May 3, 2012
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I think I know exactly what you mean here Maggyann, we all have to take responsibility for our safety. Provocative clothing is no excuse for disrespectng women, but, women do need to be aware that they will get more attention if they dress that way. Its not just clothing though, some of the language that is coming out of the mouths of young people, male and female, leaves a lot to be desired and respect seems to be diminishing, – please don’t think I am referring to all young people, there are some wonderful young people around, but values definitely have derteriorated and respect for others of all ages has diminished.
Maggyann said
I am probably going out on a limb here, and a thin shaky one at that but as far as nightclubs go I have to ask what else do girls expect these days when they are dressed in less than I wear on the beach? They are going to a place where they know copious amounts of alcohol will be consumed by males, females and in betweeners alike. They know that a strapless top, micro mini skirt, thong and long boots adorning a tanned (ahem) body topped with long hair which has been ironed to within an inch of its life is the visual equivilent of standing under a lamp post chewing gum and staring at male drivers cruising past. Then they have the audacity to be ‘offended’ when a male acts like a male acts. If a female is old enough to enter a nightclub then surely she is also old enough to know that men are easily distracted/attracted and most of not all of their libido operates on visual stimulus so why go out dressed for sex then be shocked that a male at some point in the night and probably under the influence of alcohol and equally drunken mates, responds to the visual sexual stimuli. The honest truth is they dress provocatively to provoke a response added to which they drink alcohol and lose all sense of decorum. I am not saying quite baldly that girls ask for ‘it’ because they don’t necessarily but they do NOT protect themselves from ‘it’. They aim to provoke the males then cry foul when the male responds.
I know, I ‘ve been around a while, there is a train of thought which says a woman should be able to walk the streets naked if she wants and not be seen as sexual. Fine, be as PC as you want but personally I think that is the most stupid argument there is.
A bit like saying from your bed in intensive care ‘but the green man was showing when I crossed, I had right of way, it’s not fair’ after being knocked down and almost killed by a runaway truck which has suffered from brake failure.
I am sorry I just know I have offended people but honestly we all male or female have to take responsibility for ourselves. Putting yourself in danger and then crying foul is IMO extremely immature.
2:22 pm
May 3, 2012
Offline
I think I know exactly what you mean here Maggyann, we all have to take responsibility for our safety. Provocative clothing is no excuse for disrespectng women, but, women do need to be aware that they will get more attention if they dress that way. Its not just clothing though, some of the language that is coming out of the mouths of young people, male and female, leaves a lot to be desired and respect seems to be diminishing, – please don’t think I am referring to all young people, there are some wonderful young people around, but values definitely have derteriorated and respect for others of all ages has diminished.
Maggyann said
I am probably going out on a limb here, and a thin shaky one at that but as far as nightclubs go I have to ask what else do girls expect these days when they are dressed in less than I wear on the beach? They are going to a place where they know copious amounts of alcohol will be consumed by males, females and in betweeners alike. They know that a strapless top, micro mini skirt, thong and long boots adorning a tanned (ahem) body topped with long hair which has been ironed to within an inch of its life is the visual equivilent of standing under a lamp post chewing gum and staring at male drivers cruising past. Then they have the audacity to be ‘offended’ when a male acts like a male acts. If a female is old enough to enter a nightclub then surely she is also old enough to know that men are easily distracted/attracted and most of not all of their libido operates on visual stimulus so why go out dressed for sex then be shocked that a male at some point in the night and probably under the influence of alcohol and equally drunken mates, responds to the visual sexual stimuli. The honest truth is they dress provocatively to provoke a response added to which they drink alcohol and lose all sense of decorum. I am not saying quite baldly that girls ask for ‘it’ because they don’t necessarily but they do NOT protect themselves from ‘it’. They aim to provoke the males then cry foul when the male responds.
I know, I ‘ve been around a while, there is a train of thought which says a woman should be able to walk the streets naked if she wants and not be seen as sexual. Fine, be as PC as you want but personally I think that is the most stupid argument there is.
A bit like saying from your bed in intensive care ‘but the green man was showing when I crossed, I had right of way, it’s not fair’ after being knocked down and almost killed by a runaway truck which has suffered from brake failure.
I am sorry I just know I have offended people but honestly we all male or female have to take responsibility for ourselves. Putting yourself in danger and then crying foul is IMO extremely immature.
8:35 pm
January 3, 2012
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Same here Sharon. I’m about a erotic as Amy Turtle (Crossroads soap opera of the late 60’s and 70’s) and about as trendy as a Russian Motor car.
I wear what I feel comfortable in.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
10:09 pm
March 26, 2011
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Maggyann said
I knew I would ‘upset’ people. I was not talking about rape per se I was talking about being adult, recognising dangers, being responsible and stuff like that. Rape has nothing to do with sex it is a power trip. I was discussing inappropriate behaviour in nightclubs by drunken males and the contribution to such episodes by usually skimpily dressed equally intoxicated females.
Everyone can and should ‘control themselves’ but not all have the maturity to do so and when alcohol, loud thumping music and peer pressure come into play all sense goes out the window. Women have as much responsibility to ‘control’ themselves as men do. Just because something ‘should be’ doesn’t mean it is. The world over, through all the centuries, males have been driven by their sex drives, the females have preened and adorned themselves to be attractive to the male.
There is no excuse for rape and yes in a perfect world a woman could walk down the street naked with no problems but this is not a perfect world and that is one of the first things we have to realise as we gain maturity. Individually we have to assess dangers and how to avoid or negate them. Knowing there will be drunken, puerile males crammed into a room with flashing lights, brain numbing thumping music, screaming, people egging each other on, possibly some drug fuelled euphoria and all the rest it has to take a pretty stupid or brave female to enter dressed in less than she wears to bed. Stupid because her very appearance has been knowingly calculated to inflame the said males and brave because she is going to be looked at as meat, spoken to as meat and treated as meat.Taking offence is all very well (and understandable) but surely the female has contributed to the situation?
Women are increasingly objectified in a sense but by themselves. Women are womens own worst enemies in many ways. Many young ladies acknowledge that they dress as much to be more outrageous and daring than other females and so to outdo them as they do to attract men. Females know flashing their boobs and bum cheeks will attract male attention. Outfits are planned down to the last detail for a night out so with all this foresight and planning why be shocked when the result is the one aimed for? Any female who claims she is dressed in a frock that is all of 15″ top to hem without the intention of attracting male attention is lying.
To be treated with respect a person first has to respect themselves and make that apparent to the world. We have all been young and followed fashion. We have all had our stupid moments. We have all been in nasty situations on occasion but at some point we have all had to (or will have to) face up to the fact that we contributed in some measure to any uncomfortable episodes whether by behaviour, appearance, lack of awareness, drunkeness or whatever.
I am not talking about the woman walking along the street and getting dragged into bushes and raped I am talking about women getting drunk in pubs and bars, falling off stools, wrapping themselves round strangers and all the rest then being ‘offended’ when some bloke talks to their boobs or slaps their bum or worse.
Knowing how men are programmed and saying well they shouldn’t be like that doesn’t make it okay to ignore the knowledge and do your own thing only to complain about it later.
I am sorry to offend anyone but I honestly do think the biggest problem is the lack of personal responsibility. Get out there and have a great time but be safe. The only way to be truly safe is to be in control of yourself and aware of the signals you are giving out just as much as you are aware of the ‘offensiveness’ directed at you by the men (and sometimes other women to be fair) around you.
I can understand your point Maggyann, my friends and I often see women dressed in little more than their underwear and seeking male attention, but they tend to approach the males themselves; in which case both they and the men they approach are presumably happy in the situation 
I probably did not word my post quite correctly at the time as I was angry, but essentially what I was referring to was the situation where a group of girls go out together,and are, in my personal opinion, smartly dressed, and they receive nothing but torment for the entire night.
It’s been a while since I made this post and I have to say not all my experiences have been the same. I have met many men who can control themselves, many who can’t, but most of all I have made some great friends, both male and female. I also have met a guy who has proved himself to be a real gentleman, showing me respect and kindness from the moment we met. And interestingly, I ‘told off’ a young man in a bar and we have since become great friends.
There are however times when a similar situation occurs. What myself and many other women find offensive is when you have politely said ‘please don’t do that’, or have tried to move away and the harassment continues. Usually a sharp ‘No’ or ‘get off me’ does the trick but it’s always followed by a string of bad language and abusive, mocking comments. The same thing doesn’t always happen but it does happen, and I believe it is not dependant on what the woman is wearing, her age, or her intelligence. What I do believe is important is that women know they have a choice, men know not all women act the way they do in music video’s, and also that a little old fashioned courtesy can go a long way.
8:21 am
June 7, 2011
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Gellygret said
I think I know exactly what you mean here Maggyann, we all have to take responsibility for our safety. Provocative clothing is no excuse for disrespectng women, but, women do need to be aware that they will get more attention if they dress that way. Its not just clothing though, some of the language that is coming out of the mouths of young people, male and female, leaves a lot to be desired and respect seems to be diminishing, – please don’t think I am referring to all young people, there are some wonderful young people around, but values definitely have derteriorated and respect for others of all ages has diminished.
Maggyann said
I am probably going out on a limb here, and a thin shaky one at that but as far as nightclubs go I have to ask what else do girls expect these days when they are dressed in less than I wear on the beach? They are going to a place where they know copious amounts of alcohol will be consumed by males, females and in betweeners alike. They know that a strapless top, micro mini skirt, thong and long boots adorning a tanned (ahem) body topped with long hair which has been ironed to within an inch of its life is the visual equivilent of standing under a lamp post chewing gum and staring at male drivers cruising past. Then they have the audacity to be ‘offended’ when a male acts like a male acts. If a female is old enough to enter a nightclub then surely she is also old enough to know that men are easily distracted/attracted and most of not all of their libido operates on visual stimulus so why go out dressed for sex then be shocked that a male at some point in the night and probably under the influence of alcohol and equally drunken mates, responds to the visual sexual stimuli. The honest truth is they dress provocatively to provoke a response added to which they drink alcohol and lose all sense of decorum. I am not saying quite baldly that girls ask for ‘it’ because they don’t necessarily but they do NOT protect themselves from ‘it’. They aim to provoke the males then cry foul when the male responds.
I know, I ‘ve been around a while, there is a train of thought which says a woman should be able to walk the streets naked if she wants and not be seen as sexual. Fine, be as PC as you want but personally I think that is the most stupid argument there is.
A bit like saying from your bed in intensive care ‘but the green man was showing when I crossed, I had right of way, it’s not fair’ after being knocked down and almost killed by a runaway truck which has suffered from brake failure.
I am sorry I just know I have offended people but honestly we all male or female have to take responsibility for ourselves. Putting yourself in danger and then crying foul is IMO extremely immature.
Unfortunately its the same across the board though, some of the rudest people I have met have been 60+, the same goes for my friends. Young people are not going to respect those who do not respect them. The behaviour of people these days is a product of our society and cultural upbringing, respect is now earned, rather than automatically given.
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
10:19 am
May 7, 2010
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I was brought up to believe respect is a given but can be lost – rather than something to be earned in the first instance.
Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60
8:26 pm
February 24, 2010
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Claire-Louise said
Maggyann said
There are however times when a similar situation occurs. What myself and many other women find offensive is when you have politely said ‘please don’t do that’, or have tried to move away and the harassment continues. Usually a sharp ‘No’ or ‘get off me’ does the trick but it’s always followed by a string of bad language and abusive, mocking comments. The same thing doesn’t always happen but it does happen, and I believe it is not dependant on what the woman is wearing, her age, or her intelligence. What I do believe is important is that women know they have a choice, men know not all women act the way they do in music video’s, and also that a little old fashioned courtesy can go a long way.
Claire-Louise,
You took my advice and started putting those guys in their place. Good for you! It doesn’t matter that they say nasty things after the put down, what’s impotant is that they bug off!
6:38 am
May 7, 2010
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Sharon said
Maggyann said
There are however times when a similar situation occurs. What myself and many other women find offensive is when you have politely said ‘please don’t do that’, or have tried to move away and the harassment continues. Usually a sharp ‘No’ or ‘get off me’ does the trick but it’s always followed by a string of bad language and abusive, mocking comments. The same thing doesn’t always happen but it does happen, and I believe it is not dependant on what the woman is wearing, her age, or her intelligence. What I do believe is important is that women know they have a choice, men know not all women act the way they do in music video’s, and also that a little old fashioned courtesy can go a long way.
Maggyann did not say the above…
Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60
6:07 pm
February 24, 2010
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Maggy,
I don’t know how that happened? Claire-Louise said it I think. I pressed quote to reply to her, not you. So sorry. I can’t believe I didn’t catch that. I had to cut some of the quote and somehow I didn’t remove your name. Again, my apologies. Geesh! 
6:20 pm
May 7, 2010
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hahahaha it is alright no panic.
I just sat here this morning reading it and thinking did I write that? I thought my mind had finally collapsed in on itself hahaha.
Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60
