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12:45 pm
June 5, 2010
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I'm nearly done with Elizabeth Norton's biography on Margaret Beaufort, and I have to confess — I feel as though I know her more than I ever have before.
One of my biggest complaints is that I never felt Margaret had been well-analyzed; that for me, of all the Tudors, she was a cypher. I think Norton has gnoe a long way in helping to relieve me of that problem. She gives us the background of the Beauforts, including Margaret's tragic father (who mya have commited suicide); Margaret's four marriages (the first was annulled and I barely count it since she was a child when it happened) — and I was even able to see how each one affected her, the one she may have seriously loved (her third husband); her role at the Yorkist court in which she had some prominence for a time; her possible role in the Buckingham rebellion; her devotion to her only child, and yes, her prominence at court after her son's accession, when she began to sign her paperwork as Margaret R (which might stand for Richmond…but more than likely was a representation of her being a Queen in her own right).
I also have loved the section on her relationship with her daughter-in-law. Seems like she was a bit of the mother-in-law from hell, but that as Elizabeth grew older, she began to assert herself more so that the women were more like equals. I've loved her giving me new information on Henry VII — that he was not always some miserly, Scrooge-type Tudor, but a man who loved gaming, parties, dancing, jewels and beautiful clothes (you should read what he wore to his coronation). It also appears that he sincerely loved Elizabeth, even to locking himself away for a time after her death, or when they mourned together over losing their oldest son. It is a side of Henry VII we rarely see.
Margaret, although we see her as almost “nun-like”, also had fine tastes in beautiful fabrics and jewelry and set a great table, and we know of her love of universities. When she wept during Henry's coronation, it had as much to do with their great fortune as it did her remembering the constant turning of Fate, and how fortunes could change for good or for bad. It's been nice seeing both of them in such a different light. The last chapters will be on
Anyway, if anyone is interested in the female founder of the Tudor family (well, outside of Katherine of Valois), I'd say get this one. It's a decent read and thankfully not as dry as another biography I tried to read on Margaret and eventually (and regretfully) gave up. I know this is just the barest of a synopsis, but when I read something good, I want to pass it on.
Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)
2:19 pm
April 9, 2011
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I’ve finished reading Weir’s Innocent Traitor a couple of days ago. I aim to post my thoughts in the thread for the book in the next few days. In summary: I really enjoyed it. I have just started Gregory’s The Boleyn Inheritance. Considering TOBG made me search out the truth and discover this site, I’m interested to see what Gregory will be able to achieve in peaking my interest in the area of Henry’s life that is regularly ignored by the common masses. Already I’m discovering that Gregory’s writing for this book is not as great as what it was with TOBG, but I will soldier on, cause I do want to know a bit more about Anne Of Cleves and Katherine Howard. And I find fictional accounts are the best way to help me deal with reading factual books on them.
7:34 pm
October 31, 2010
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I just started reading The Help by Kathryn Stockett. It's quite good, but I'm not 100% sure where it's going right now. It's been made into a movie recently and I'd like to see it, but I want to read the book first.
I just finished the Game of Thrones series as it stands right now. It's incredibly engrossing, but, as I've said before, you need to allocate a good deal of time to finishing it. So far there are 5 books and they are all quite lengthy. There are supposed to be another 2. If you finish book 1, though, you won't be able to just stop and not continue. You'll have to know what happens.
"We mustn't let our passions destroy our dreams…"
9:57 am
December 12, 2010
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I've just started Alison Weir's The Captive Queen. Now I know it's a fictional account, but so far it's not been about much other than sex. Has anyone read it? Can anyone tell me if it actually gives any story/info beyond the bedroom? I really enjoyed Innocent Traitor too. Hopefully this one will get better, but so far I'm not so impressed.
7:25 pm
August 12, 2009
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I’m reading it, too. I’m past her coronation as Queen of England, and there’s still a lot of sex, which gets boring after awhile, believe it or not! That’s what’s slowing me down on finishing it.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
4:44 am
June 5, 2010
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SG said:
I’ve just started Alison Weir’s The Captive Queen. Now I know it’s a fictional account, but so far it’s not been about much other than sex. Has anyone read it? Can anyone tell me if it actually gives any story/info beyond the bedroom? I really enjoyed Innocent Traitor too. Hopefully this one will get better, but so far I’m not so impressed.
________________________________________________________________________________
SG:
I've read three of Ms. Weir's fictional accounts — Innocent Traitor
then The Lady Elizabeth; I read The Captive Queen at the end of the
spring and regrettably, I didn't find it as good as the other ones and
yes, I knew it was a work of fiction, and yes, I was looking beyond The
Lion in Winter (which is often difficult LOL). I expected some sex
because Eleanor was one of the most beautiful women of her time and
Henry was, well, the Henry of legend. (Lord only knows how many
“natural” children he left behind considering the man got around!!
LOL). I'll give it high marks for NOT turning into a Philippa Gregory
novel filled with over-the-top, blatant lies, and for giving us some
idea of the claustrophobia of one aspect of this vibrant woman's life.
But there was at least one section which nearly lost me and that was
“Fair Rosamund” (who may be one of the most neglected mistresses in
history if Henry was out running an empire and rarely saw her). I knew
it had to be dealt with but there is one chapter with Eleanor at
Woodstock that did not seem to belong, and I'm not talking about the
possibility of her finding out her husband's mistress was there, and
not wishing to give birth at the same estate, the Queen moved on (this
very likely happened as John was born elsewhere, not at the
closer-at-hand Woodstock). This had to do with a return visit during
her imprisoned years — and while I kind of see why the scene was
there, it just left me shrugging and thinking 'That wasn't very
interesting after all the build-up.' I won't spoil it with more unless
you want me to. LOL
Yes, the book goes beyond the bedroom and yes, I did find some of the
scenes between Eleanor and her sons quite interesting, and it often
felt more accurate than the fictionalized Christmas court of The Lion
in Winter. But I knew that Ms. Weir was trying very hard not to write
TLIW part 2…and that movie and play are now so such a part of our
lives that it's hard NOT to see Peter O'Toole, Katharine Hepburn,
Anthony Hopkins and the rest.
But after reading Helen Castor's “She-Wolves” I would have liked to
have seen more. Eleanor was a fascinating figure from childhood, when
she became heiress of Acquitaine. And her marriage to Louis was so much
more than this simplistic prelude to her divorce and eventual marriage
to Henry. Whereas Ms. Weir often felt as if she was wasting time with
sex, she could have committed an entire section to the younger Eleanor
traveling with Louis on Crusades: watching her ineffectual husband fail
before they even made it to the Holy Land; the perils she faced
including having her ship captured; the scandals that rocked
Christendom when there were hints that she and her handsome uncle
were…well, there were rumors. I would have liked a bit more about the
likely clashes between her and her mother-in-law, Matilda (the woman
who should have been Queen of England in her own right but was denied
that due to her being female. Those two had a LOT in common). I might
have liked more about the elderly Eleanor, who traveled seemingly the
whole of Europe when she was in her sixties and seventies, sometimes as
peacemaker, once as escort to a royal granddaughter.
I don't know but I just felt like a lot was missing, things I would
have rather read about instead of what we got. But that's just me.
Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)
6:05 am
June 7, 2010
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I agree, Tina. I had high hopes for The Captive Queen, since I loved Innocent Traitor. But I was disappointed with Weir's lack of presenting Eleanor as the fascinating figure she was in her time. I understand the need to portray the sexual nature of Eleanor and Henry's relationship, but it became too much, and I found it took away from the more complex issues of the story.
Sex has it's place, but only when it moves the story forward. Like Impish, I found it slowed the story down, and got to be too much.
I wish Weir's book started with a young Eleanor, as Duchess in her own right, and the richest woman in Europe. I've read a few biographies on Eleanor, and her younger years were fascinating, and ver definintive moments in her life which lead to to become the definate woman as Queen of two realms.
Having said that, I was an interesting read, but I would recommend seeking out some bios on Eleanor's and learning about the real woman.
I am currently reading The Bricklayer by Noah Boyd. It's great! The story centers around Steve Vail, a former FBI agnet, called back to duty to stop a domestic terror cell in LA. A film version is in the works starring Gerard Butler. I can totally see him in this role.
"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn
7:50 am
November 18, 2010
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I've finished Rebecca. I enjoyed it but I don't think I would read it again.
It's always bunnies.
9:56 am
December 12, 2010
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Thanks for the feedback Tina, Impish and Duchess. I'll press on. I agree that sex does have a place in novels, but I do like more of a story to go along with it. Especially at first. I agree that it would have been nice if it had been started at an earlier point, as the frequent references to past occurrences are really piquing my interest. I think I'll have to get a couple of biographies about Eleanor to find out more. I sometimes find a fictional account best to start off with, so that I know the basics. This approach can sometimes fail miserably if the novel is on a par with TOBG. As I found with that, if I've read the biographies first I can get very irritated with the novel. Mind you, TOBG would probably have irritated me anyway 
10:20 am
June 5, 2010
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DuchessofBrittany said:
I agree, Tina. I had high hopes for The Captive Queen, since I loved Innocent Traitor. But I was disappointed with Weir's lack of presenting Eleanor as the fascinating figure she was in her time. I understand the need to portray the sexual nature of Eleanor and Henry's relationship, but it became too much, and I found it took away from the more complex issues of the story.
Sex has it's place, but only when it moves the story forward. Like Impish, I found it slowed the story down, and got to be too much.
I wish Weir's book started with a young Eleanor, as Duchess in her own right, and the richest woman in Europe. I've read a few biographies on Eleanor, and her younger years were fascinating, and ver definintive moments in her life which lead to to become the definate woman as Queen of two realms.
Having said that, I was an interesting read, but I would recommend seeking out some bios on Eleanor's and learning about the real woman.
I am currently reading The Bricklayer by Noah Boyd. It's great! The story centers around Steve Vail, a former FBI agnet, called back to duty to stop a domestic terror cell in LA. A film version is in the works starring Gerard Butler. I can totally see him in this role.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Duchess you are so right. I get bored with — what is the joke “gratuitous sex”? or “sex for sex's sake”; I want it to be told for a reason or to push the story along, and actually (movie buff that I am) it's more sexy for me to see Claudette Colbert's Cleopatra give the nod and little by little, layer by layer, her love scene with Henry Wilcoxen's Antony is subtly hidden from our view by drapes, curtains, flower girls, dancers and the men beating drum time for the rowers. We know what is happening but now it is up to our imaginations.
Oddly enough, Ms. Weir DOES have a biography on Eleanor, which I believe she mentions in her Postscript helped inspire her to write Captive Queen. I don't know if anyone has read it though (Anyone? Anyone?). I'm telling you, if someone would turn Castor's She-Wolves into a miniseries, in the right hands it could be incredible, and you'd see the story of Eleanor from the very beginning — not just as Henry's wife and not just as Louis' wife. (And honestly, I'd love to see the stories of Matilda, Henry's mother; Isabelle, the long-suffering consort of Edward II who decided to take him on, was cheered by the people as a heroine – and then became corrupt herself; and Margaret of Anjou and the Wars of the Roses. And Eleanor most definitely!
Oooooooooooo…Gerard Butler! Gerard Butler fighting terrorists. I'm there! 
Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)
3:23 pm
June 7, 2010
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TinaII2None said:
________________________________________________________________________________________
Oooooooooooo…Gerard Butler! Gerard Butler fighting terrorists. I'm there!
Tina, I thought you'd like this. Gerard Butler doing anything is sexy to me.
I've read Weir's biography on Eleanor of Aquitaine, and thought it was okay. It suffers from the same issues that all of Weir's books, but she does a good job of presenting Eleanor as an imporant figure in Medieval history, a Duchess in her own right and it's implications, but also an Eleanor of passion, intelligence, and power. I found it much better than some of her other books.
I've read Amy Kelly's bio on Eleanor titled Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings. It's dated, but I found it informative.
I am now reading S. J Parris's Prophecy, which is the sequal to Heresy.
Next I am going to try and read C.J Sansom's Tudor mysteries. They seem to come recommeneded.
"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn
8:11 am
August 27, 2011
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I finished “The Secret Diary of Anne Boleyn” by Robin Maxwell. Admittedly cried at George's death. It was very good. I am now half way through “Madamoiselle Boleyn” by the same author and I have to admit…it got a little…raunchy in the middle. I am NOT a prude by ANY stretch so don't get me wrong. But it almost took this bizarre turn reminiscent of Anne Rice's “Sleeping Beauty” series. And while I actually own that trilogy and it has it's time and place. While I also know that the court of the Tudors and other courts of that era were highly sexual, I don't or at least I never viewed it as….well….soft core p*rn…which this book definitely leaned towards in the center of the text. It seems to be steering away from it now that I am entering the last 1/3 of the book. However, the explicit debased sexual activity was…out of place and disturbing. Perhaps because I go about my Tudor business as a scholar and I take it very seriously and this was like reading a teenage boy's letter to Hustler magazine. I was bothered by it a bit. OK I am just blathering now. Stop typing? Sure you bet!
Kimberly
10:52 am
June 5, 2010
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DuchessofBrittany said:
Tina, I thought you’d like this.
I’ve read Weir’s biography on Eleanor of Aquitaine, and thought it was okay. It suffers from the same issues that all of Weir’s books, but she does a good job of presenting Eleanor as an imporant figure in Medieval history, a Duchess in her own right and it’s implications, but also an Eleanor of passion, intelligence, and power. I found it much better than some of her other books.
I’ve read Amy Kelly’s bio on Eleanor titled Eleanor of Aquitaine and the Four Kings. It’s dated, but I found it informative.
I am now reading S. J Parris’s Prophecy, which is the sequal to Heresy.
Next I am going to try and read C.J Sansom’s Tudor mysteries. They seem to come recommeneded.
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Duchess and first a side note: Gerry, Gerry, Gerry!
Now back to the important stuff. I might check out Weir's biography on Eleanor sometime (like I don't have enough to read LOL), but when you mention it suffering from 'the same issue that all of Weir's books' what was there in particular?
And has anyone read Weir's bio on Katherine Synford (sp?). I thought someone on here mentioned it once and because so little is actually known about her, the book had a lot of filler (such as her being related to Chaucer).
You know, sometimes the dated bios aren't bad, even when I find myself correcting them as I go along. I figure if they were based on the facts as we knew them then, I can't be too negative. I still love Mary M. Luke's Tudor trilogy (Katherine the Queen; A Crown for Elizabeth; Gloriana) although we do have new information now (I think she wrote her biographies in the early Seventies), but her writing was so concise, and she had such a grasp of the Tudors that I will forever consider them three of the finest biographies a Tudor fan could ever read. I think she honestly understood all of them as they were: whether it was Henry, his wives or his children — and even now, I know that, for all their faults, she knew what made Mary, Elizabeth and Edward tick. Oh and Lady Jane Grey too. She made me see them and those around them with fresh eyes for a girl who was falling in love with that family. It takes one hell of a writer to bring tears to your eyes when she recounts some of their deaths — be it Katherine with her deathbed letter to Henry; Mary, knowing she had not truly returned England to the Catholic fold and dying alone, abandoned, without husband or child; Edward VI dying before his time; poignant Jane in her hour of death and her touching confessions to her beloved tutor, Roger Ascham, about her family's mistreatment of her; or Cranmer's burning at the stake. I even felt bad for those Seymour brothers and I can't stand either of them! LOL
Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)
9:20 am
February 24, 2010
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Hi Tina,
I have read Weir's book about Katherine Swynford. A lot of, “was she there?” “We cannot say for certain, but she may have been.” “It may have been.” “It's entirely possible.” Stuff like that. Typical Weir with lots of filler. However, I must say I did enjoy the book.
Katherine's sister, Phillipa was married to Chaucer. That's where the relationship comes in.
I'm going to plug one of my favorite novels here. “Katherine,” by Anya Seton. Seton brings Katherine and John's story to life. Their story is one of the greatest love stories of all time. At least I think it is. At the end, in my copy anyway, Seaton tells when and where she took poetic license. Unlike some authors who shall not be named.
I have read “A Crown For Elizabeth.” Mary Luke brings the Tudors to life. I definitely will have to find the other two books by her. I didn't know it was a trilogy.
11:28 pm
January 9, 2010
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Finally got around to starting the third book in C J Sansom series and I'm loving it. Can't rate these books high enough!
12:04 pm
June 5, 2010
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Sharon said:
Hi Tina,
I have read Weir’s book about Katherine Swynford. A lot of, “was she there?” “We cannot say for certain, but she may have been.” “It may have been.” “It’s entirely possible.” Stuff like that. Typical Weir with lots of filler. However, I must say I did enjoy the book.
Katherine’s sister, Phillipa was married to Chaucer. That’s where the relationship comes in.
I’m going to plug one of my favorite novels here. “Katherine,” by Anya Seton. Seton brings Katherine and John’s story to life. Their story is one of the greatest love stories of all time. At least I think it is. At the end, in my copy anyway, Seaton tells when and where she took poetic license. Unlike some authors who shall not be named.
I have read “A Crown For Elizabeth.” Mary Luke brings the Tudors to life. I definitely will have to find the other two books by her. I didn’t know it was a trilogy.
__________________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Sharon:
I read 'A Crown for Elizabeth' first, and I still remember the dedication, maybe not word for word, but it was essentially to the fans of 'Katherine the Queen who asked — What happened then?' I wanted to know more about this Katherine — not realizing it was Katherine of Aragon, and naturally, I had to finish it all up by reading about Elizabeth. (It was also one of the first books I read in which Amy Dudley's death is logically analyzed in the way law enforcement might). Then I also lucked out on 'The Ivy Crown', her fictional work on Katherine Parr, and the Tudor inspired 'The Nonsuch Lure' which I've mentioned before (in which Henry VIII, Nonsuch Palace, Holbein and Elizabeth make cameos).
Oh good grief: might have been, could have been, entirely possible??? ROFL That's a bit too much speculation for me, but I might read it sometime in the future. Thanks for the info.
Now the Seton novel sounds more to my liking. I mean, I realize it is fiction, but at least the author admits to what she fictionalized, etc. I appreciate that.
Speaking of Weir and fiction as well as admitting to poetic license, I'm pretty sure we've mentioned this novel before — Weir's 'The Lady Elizabeth'. I'm wondering what you all thought of it and if so, do you believe that Weir might have went a bit “over the top” in her speculation of Elizabeth's illness when she was interviewed/interrogated by Privy Council members? Was this a situation — even with the style of wardrobe then — that could have lent itself to such a deception? (I'm trying not to give away spoilers for those that have not yet read it). Now I know in her postscript, Weir admits that no one knows and she was fictionalizing a possibility, but it seemed very much in the Philippa Gregory mode I'm afraid, at least to me.
Henry: Mistress Anne, will you teach the king of England how they dance in the French court?
Anne: There is nothing that France can teach England, your majesty.
King Henry VIII: Well said. Well said.
– Anne of the Thousand Days (1969)
3:33 pm
June 7, 2011
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Has anyone read this book, I am shocked by the reviews I have read! The author states that he believes Anne did commit adultery, and that he “Rounds off his book with words of monition to Tudor England enthusiasts, to stop seeing Anne as a role model for women, or her life as having any other than a strictly historical significance”
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
8:13 pm
November 18, 2010
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The Bernard book is discussed here.
Claire linked her AB files post about it in that thread. as of yet I still haven't bought it but it is still on my wishlist.
It's always bunnies.
7:36 am
August 27, 2011
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I just finished Mademoiselle Boleyn. I have mixed feelings about it. It was endearing to see her in the light of childhood, but it had some strange sexual twists that I do not usually look for in my Tudor studies, as it were. As I said in an earlier post, I am no prude and sexuality has its time and place, but it was stangely explicit and it was more like reading soft core p*rn about the Boleyns and the Francois, than about history.
Moving on. I have just started The Last Boleyn. I am in the first chapter, and I am desperately hoping that the way they are portraying the Child George Boleyn is not laying the framework for his portrayal throughout this book or I see myself being most dissatisfied.
Kimberly
12:53 pm
June 7, 2011
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Strange question – but does anyone here own Tudor Women by Alison Plowden?
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
