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8:39 pm
December 5, 2009
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Tudor history is defined by religion upheaval. What if there was no religion? What if, when we came out of the trees and stopped bashing each other over the head with clubs, no one came up with the concept of religion? No God, no Jesus, no Buddah, no Alah. There’s no such thing as Catholicism, Protestantism, no Muslims and no anything else. Where would we be?
It’s often said that the breakdown of religion has caused a breakdown of society, but on the other hand throughout history a vast amount of human conflict stems from religious dogmatisam. Everything from the Crusades to the current interpretations of the Koran. Would we be savages without religion? Or would it have made no difference whatsoever to our evolution if the concept of religion had never been formalised?
Would there have been less human conflict or would we have found something else to quarrel about? And war has pushed our technology forward more than anything else i.e. technological advancement out of necessity. Would we be as advanced without religion?
I’ll shut up now because I’m giving myself a headache. But I wonder what people think because it’s something that I’ve thought about for a long while.
9:33 pm
May 7, 2010
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Hmmm. I read the question earlier then had to go off and think about it. Here is what I came up with in my scrambled brain.
‘Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace’
(John Lennon)
Later in the song he also says ‘you may say I am a dreamer…’ and from my standpoint I would certainly agree that he was dreaming.
WWI had nothing to do with religion, WWII had nothing to do with religion (Hitler and his hatred of the Jews being of the actual race more than any religious ideology). The English Civil War did not start out as having any religious basis. Yes there was ‘hatred’ of the Queen because she was Catholic but the real problem was Charles and his absolute monarchy ideas, not listening or caring much about the people and so on. I am not too up on it but I don’t think even the American Civil War came down to religion (I think it was more to do with slavery???) Even going further back to say the Romans who marched over vast swathes of the planet it was not in the name of religion but in the name of conquest and power.
So going back to John and his ‘all the people living life in peace’ well yes it would be lovely but it is not religion that is stopping us from finding such a Utopia.
Yes there were the crusades and other wars which were fought in the name of religion but my point is that man (and woman of course) has in the course of history been perfectly able to find things to fight about without religion coming into the equation.
Religion is also known as the great power to control the masses, well it isn’t doing very well in these embittered times is it? Control is being lost on all levels with material matters being the ‘touchpaper’ rather than God (any God). Ultimately even wars fought in the name of him, him or him over there are actually fought for power, material gain, gains in land, status, personal aggrandisement and so on.
If religion had never turned up something else would. Religion is man made after all. I think there have been many much worse things man-made in past centuries than any of the religions.
Sorry I do go on. Basically I do not think we would be any better off without religion nor any worse off. I think we would be exactly where we are today with something different to argue about but with the same reasons for people dying in battlezones or drought blighted countries or under tyrannical leaders or for basic freedoms and all the rest.
Some men would have made a mess of it no matter what they had created to believe in and the masses would have suffered just the same.
In the song ‘Imagine’ there is the line ‘imagine there’s no countries’ and that is where I see the biggest cause for discontent – far greater than religion. Considering everyone from the caveman defending HIS hole in the rocks lording it over his family tribe, to the yeoman ploughing HIS patch of ground and lording it over his family, to the Lord ruling HIS lands and dictating how life will be for his vassals, to the KING defending HIS kingdom and lording it over everyone under him in status and so on; that is where the wars and battles and deaths come from at root. It may have made it easier (or may make it easier in present times) to blame some Higher Being of whatever persuasion. It may have been a way of getting men to actually go and fight, giving them a cause a bit more personal than keeping ‘Lord so and so’ safe in his castle with his lands in one piece because in the end it was all down to the ownership of land and power over those underneath in status and the masses may well have felt differently about dying for the non-religious Lord (of the manor) than for the Lord above who would see them okay if they were killed in battle.
Now I am going to lie down – because I NEED to……………….
Let us show them that they are hares and foxes trying to rule over dogs and wolves - Boudica addressing the tribes Circa AD60
8:02 am
June 7, 2011
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Religion is just another way to control the masses, yet it is followed blindly without question. With the introduction of Christianity for instance, many people disconnected from the Earth and well, now we are destroying our once revered mother. Religious evolution may be a good thing but ultimately it will destroy us too. Wars will always be fought, it is in our nature. If only we concentrated on our great capacity for love rather than who is wrong and right in religion, the world would be a better place already. If we look at the evidence via near death experiences etc, we would see that no religion is wrong or right, all faiths go to the same place, there is no Jesus or Mohammed waiting for the people when they get there, just love.
The second world war was not only about the persecution of the Jews, Hitler wanted world domination. It was not a religious war, but it was not wholly racial either.
"It is however but Justice, & my Duty to declre that this amiable Woman was entirely innocent of the Crimes with which she was accused, of which her Beauty, her Elegance, & her Sprightliness were sufficient proofs..." Jane Austen.
11:42 am
April 11, 2011
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I always think that the quotation by Steven Weinberg sums this up very well and echoes my own viewpoint on this subject:
“With or without it (religion), you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
12:35 pm
October 28, 2011
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Elliemarianna said
Religion is just another way to control the masses, yet it is followed blindly without question.
I don’t know about that Ellie, if people never questioned religion you wouldn’t have new branches off old religions, new religions, cults, or atheism for that matter.
I actually don’t think human beings can exist without some sort of belief, whatever it may be.
On another note I have often wondered if we would have the same sort of societal-based morals and values if they hadn’t been conceived by religion. What would define right from wrong?
1:08 pm
April 9, 2011
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“With or without it (religion), you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
Love it and sums up Tudor England so well.
6:54 pm
February 24, 2010
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You are correct Maggy. The American Civil war was fought over slavery and State’s rights. Religion was not part of it. Didn’t Charles believe in the Divine Right of Kings (given to him by God)? And Didn’t Oliver Cromwell force his version of religion on England?
Since it is Independence Day, I will quote some of our founding Father’s beliefs on religion:
John Adams:
“This would be the best of all possible world’s if there were no religion in it.”
“When tyranny comes, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a Bible.”—-my favorite quote.
Thomas Jefferson:
“Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.”
James Madison:
“Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.”
And I love Neil’s quote. I also agree with Ellie. We have become disconnected from the earth. We no longer take care of her. We do not replenish her, we only destroy her. If we don’t start paying her the attention she deserves, she is going to shake us off of her like a dog shakes off fleas.
I think we would have figured out right from wrong, and good from evil without having organized religions telling us how and what we ought to believe.
