2:53 am
January 16, 2010
Which wife do you think Henry loved the most and why? I really only know about Anne and I believe he was not so much in love with her, but more infatuated. Anne was his escape, this mysterious, dark and witty woman who was the key to Protestantism in England, the lady who would help Henry on the path of his divorce to Katherine of Aragon. I believe he loved her to an extent, but, in my opinion, he showed no sympathy whatsoever when Anne failed to produce sons.
For example, say that Jane Seymour had a miscarriage or only gave birth to girls (given she hadn't died, that is) would Henry have 'forgiven' her? Or would she have been beheaded as well??
xx.
8:27 am
December 30, 2009
I think Henry \”loved\” Anne because she didn't give in to him and become his mistress, like all the others. He was keen to ditch Katherine (whom he also \”loved\” in the beginning) when she became unable to have a child. Anne's failure to have a son, doomed her and I daresay that if Jane Seymour had failed to have a son, her status of \”favourite\” wife would not have been conferred.
Catherine Parr was almost destroyed in a plot and it was only her quick-thinking which saved her – I am sure Henry would have got rid of her, if he felt like it.
Henry, in my opinion, always was selfish and egotistical, whether he truely loved anyone other than himself is moot.
1:01 pm
December 8, 2009
I`m not going to put words into the mouth of a man long dead. Instead I`ll go with what Henry himself said, his favourite was Jane Seymour. With the exception of Anne of Cleves, Henry loved all of his wives in different ways and to varying degrees. But his heart was with Jane, if only for giving him Edward.
Be daly prove you shalle me fynde,nTo be to you bothe lovyng and kynde,
3:27 pm
December 8, 2009
What if Henry didn`t grow tired of her? What if Jane produced son after healthy, living son? No can say whether or not Henry would`ve grown tired of Jane, so I go soley on the facts. His Love for Anne Boleyn seemed more of an obsessive infatuation that died very quickly. Katherine of Aragon was different again. Love borne of deep respect, perhaps? Katherine Howard was just pure lust and Katherine Parr was more of a companiable love. Thats how it seems, at any rate.
Be daly prove you shalle me fynde,nTo be to you bothe lovyng and kynde,
I don't think Henry's love for Anne was an infatuation as it lasted a long time for Henry, if you look at how long her pursued her before their marriage (7 years). I know that you can't compare this to the length of time he was married to Catherine, but he didn't know he could get rid of her until Anne came along. I don't think that his love for Anne died quickly and I don't think it was an obsessive infatuation. He had found a woman who understood how he ticked and that he could discuss things with, she was his equal and was as passionate as he was. They were forever falling out and making up and I wonder if they would have made up if Anne had managed to get to speak to Henry and explain herself to him. He managed to forgive Catherine Parr when she explained herself to him, so what if Anne had got to Henry? What would have happened then?
Yes, we have Henry's words saying that Jane was his \”true wife\” but that doesn't mean that she was the love of his life, I would say that that title belonged to Anne or Catherine. He was despicable to Jane when she was alive and this treatment started straight away, he even said to someone that he regretted marrying her. Of course, her providing him with a son did change this and she became the wife who had actually done her job properly and he was forever grateful to her for this but again this doesn't mean that she was the love of his life. I wonder if guilt made him say that she was his true wife and put her in that famous family portrait. He wasn't the nicest of husbands and she died giving him what he wanted.
Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn
8:12 am
December 30, 2009
I agree, Claire.
With regard to the family portrait, he could hardly have put any other wife in it, as Jane had given him his male heir and I think the fact that he wanted to be buried with her was part of his reinforcement of Edward's position as heir.
Jane was hardly cold, before he was thinking about a new wife – hardly the actions of a man who had lost \”the love of his life\”.
3:14 pm
February 10, 2010
I think Henry had a huge capacity for self pity. By dying giving him the thing he most wanted in the world, Jane earned herself a posthumous place on a pedestal that she didn't enjoy in life. I think Anne was probably the love of his life but he allowed himself to be bounced into getting rid of her. He turned the Tudor world upside down to get her. Is that lust, obsession or love? Had she produced a son, I suspect theirs would have been a love story like Edward IV and Elizabeth Woodville (Henry's grandparents) rather than the tragedy it became.
Louise
12:26 am
December 30, 2009
Henry does strike me as a chap who fell in love quickly and moved heaven and earth to get what he wanted and then moved on quickly when it suited him, with apparently no regrets.
It was a similar story with Catherine – he was determined to marry her, despite the age difference and the difficulties of her being his brother's widow and all the dowry issues and he gave every indication of being in love with her during the early part of their marriage. As soon as he realised she had failed in her duty to provide a male heir, and the fact that she aged rather quickly, he forgot all the earlier “deep” feelings he had had for her.
He treated her very badly because she wouldn't do what he wanted. He could hardly execute her, so he did the next best thing and banished her and forbade her the company of her child.
In fact, the more one looks at how Henry treated those he “loved”, the more one realises just what a nasty person he was!
8:13 pm
January 9, 2010
Probably if you asked Henry who his favourite wife was, he'd say Jane. After all she was the only one who gave him the one thing above all else that he expected of a wife: a healthy, living son. The fact that she died soon after perhaps helped too, in that he didn't have time to grow tired of her on any personal level.
Katherine Parr, I think, would probably come second – he actually let her off the hook for her perceived religious transgressions and I really think she managed to bring him some tiny measure of contentment in his final years.
Catherine of Aragon would be next, despite not believing himself to have ever been lawfully married to her and the suffering he put her through, I think he managed to keep a grudging respect for her and her abilities.
The next three are hard to place but I'm gonna put Anne of Cleves next, despite Henry's intense dislike of her personally. This is based solely on the idea that if you asked him, I personally think both Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard would be completely persona non grata with him, even though out of all his wives they were the two he probably loved most passionately. Once Henry had decided to get rid of someone that was it; they were gone, totally airbrushed from history as if they never existed.
7:01 am
March 30, 2010
Many places I see, say that Jane was his favorite. Sure he loved Anne, but that was before she became queen, well that's when he was deeply in love with her, oh and also when she was pregnant. But the only reason he probobly loved Jane the most, was because she gave him Edward. But another that he loved, but the day she died, was Catherine of Aragon. I don't remember where I read this, but it said, something like, “to the knowing of the Queen Catherine's death, the king was tear driven.”
But JAne was probobly the one he loved the most, but she didn't have a temper like Anne, so that's probobly another reason.
9:07 am
August 12, 2009
I've heard that both Henry and Anne wept privately upon hearing of Katharine's death. I don't know if the story is true, but if it is, there must have been very conflicted feelings in both of them, since they also danced with joy. Maybe the tears were just for the stress of the whole drawn-out thing finally being over. An adrenaline crash, so to speak.
"Don't knock at death's door.
Ring the bell and run. He hates that."
6:10 pm
August 2, 2010
I believe that Anne was the great love of Henry's life. He literally changed the world to be with her. True, they had their rocky moments (which relationship doesn't?) but those tifts were soon mended. In part, that's why Cromwell took such quick and decisive movements against her because he knew that if Anne was allowed time alone with Henry, it would all blow over like it had so many times in the past and then it would be Cromwell who went to the scaffold (4 years later).
I think Jane Seymour gets the title of his most loved wife simply because she gave him a living son.
3:45 pm
August 2, 2010
Claire said:
I don't think Henry's love for Anne was an infatuation as it lasted a long time for Henry, if you look at how long her pursued her before their marriage (7 years). I know that you can't compare this to the length of time he was married to Catherine, but he didn't know he could get rid of her until Anne came along. I don't think that his love for Anne died quickly and I don't think it was an obsessive infatuation. He had found a woman who understood how he ticked and that he could discuss things with, she was his equal and was as passionate as he was. They were forever falling out and making up and I wonder if they would have made up if Anne had managed to get to speak to Henry and explain herself to him. He managed to forgive Catherine Parr when she explained herself to him, so what if Anne had got to Henry? What would have happened then?
Yes, we have Henry's words saying that Jane was his “true wife” but that doesn't mean that she was the love of his life, I would say that that title belonged to Anne or Catherine. He was despicable to Jane when she was alive and this treatment started straight away, he even said to someone that he regretted marrying her. Of course, her providing him with a son did change this and she became the wife who had actually done her job properly and he was forever grateful to her for this but again this doesn't mean that she was the love of his life. I wonder if guilt made him say that she was his true wife and put her in that famous family portrait. He wasn't the nicest of husbands and she died giving him what he wanted.
I agree with you, Claire. I think Henry called Jane his “favorite” and “true” wife only because of Edward. Because, really, boys were the reason he married so many times–if he had had sons with Catherine, he would probably have just stayed with her and constantly had mistresses. Anne or Catherine was either the love of Henry's life, but Anne was the most like him: both were hot-tempered, bold, proud, arrogant… She was, in my opinion, his true match, though if Catherine had given him sons they most likely would have been a very happy couple.
"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"
11:17 am
June 7, 2010
What I'm about to write will no doubt upset many, so when you rebuke me, please be kind. I think the only person Henry really loved was himself. I am sure with each wife was his favourite, at one time. However, he was incapable of loving another person. His passionate lust for Anne quickly turned to passionate hate, and that was a deadly combination.
He disposed of people he supposedly loved with such quick force and callous disregard for their lives. This was not limited to his wives. His friends, those that chose to deny him, found themselves sent to the block. Other than the syncophants, people like Anne, More, and others were disposible objects when they had served their purposes.
However, according to Henry, Jane was his true wife. She gave him what mattered to a King– a son to carry on his name. While we know what became of Mary and Elizabeth, Henry was more concerned about his lines legitimacy and longevity than how any wife felt. Catherine didn't give a son; Anne didn't give him a son, but Jane did. According to Henry's thought process, Jane was the victor.
While I would love to believe Henry and Anne loved one another unconditionally, I feel their relationship was based upon mutual sexual attraction, political ambition, and a failed plan to continue Henry's line with sons. Had Anne or Catherine of Aragon begot a son, they would have been victorious. But, alas it was not to be.
"By daily proof you shall find me to be to you both loving and kind" Anne Boleyn
8:06 am
August 2, 2010
DuchessofBrittany said:
What I'm about to write will no doubt upset many, so when you rebuke me, please be kind. I think the only person Henry really loved was himself. I am sure with each wife was his favourite, at one time. However, he was incapable of loving another person. His passionate lust for Anne quickly turned to passionate hate, and that was a deadly combination.
He disposed of people he supposedly loved with such quick force and callous disregard for their lives. This was not limited to his wives. His friends, those that chose to deny him, found themselves sent to the block. Other than the syncophants, people like Anne, More, and others were disposible objects when they had served their purposes.
However, according to Henry, Jane was his true wife. She gave him what mattered to a King– a son to carry on his name. While we know what became of Mary and Elizabeth, Henry was more concerned about his lines legitimacy and longevity than how any wife felt. Catherine didn't give a son; Anne didn't give him a son, but Jane did. According to Henry's thought process, Jane was the victor.
While I would love to believe Henry and Anne loved one another unconditionally, I feel their relationship was based upon mutual sexual attraction, political ambition, and a failed plan to continue Henry's line with sons. Had Anne or Catherine of Aragon begot a son, they would have been victorious. But, alas it was not to be.
I still think that Anne was Henry's soul mate, and Jane his 'favorite' because of Edward, but I agree with you, DuchessofBritanny. His one true love was himself (and power of course).
"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"
7:12 pm
August 12, 2010
12:40 am
October 12, 2010
I have to disagree with anyone that said that he would have tired of Jane if she had lived through the birth of Edward. Provided that Edward survived Henry (which he did), Jane would never have been cast aside. Her position as the true wife of the King (if you go by Henry’s interpretation of the Bible) was confirmed by the fact that she gave him a healthy son. Henry would have undoubtedly have tried to have another son, an heir and a spare so to speak, but so long as Edward lived to become King after him, Henry would have been happy and would have more than likely put up with Jane regardless. One of Henry’s main pieces of “evidence” against Katherine of Aragon is that she did not produce a healthy son, the ones that she did produce were stillborn, miscarried or dead within a few months. And according to Henry’s interpretation of the Bible, only a legitimate marriage would produce sons.
All of that being said though, that does not speak of Henry’s love for Jane, only his love for what she was able to do for him.
I think that I would have to say that the wives he loved the most were Katherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn, even though the kind of love he felt for them were different. With Katherine, he had a deep love that lasted over 20 years. Up until he met Anne, he cared very deeply for her and their daughter. Anne on the other hand was a far more passionate, destructive type of love, and no matter what anyone says about it just being lust, you cannot deny that lust doesn’t typically last for 7 years of pursuit.
8:12 am
September 22, 2010
I think that Henry’s favourite wife was his last,Catherine Parr for many reasons.First of all,he said so,something among the lines that he had never been so pleased with a wive as he have been with her(although he threatened her too!).Although Jane gave him his heir,we must not forget the pressure she went through in order to do that and the fact that while she was his wive she lived constantly under pressure and Henry’s constant disaproval:not to speak her mind,being threatened,his displeasure because of her delayed pregnacy.Jane lived as his beloved wife maximum for ten days:from childbearth to death.She won the title of best wive after her death.
But with Catherine,he had no longer expectations for a son and so he was able to have a more stable marriage than his first three.She was his match in academic matters,well educated and cultured,elegant,cautious and kind-spirited.She was actually an improved combination of KoA and Anne,without the stress of giving him a son.She knew exactly how to treat him,without Jane’s uptight effort,Anne’s bad temper or Katheryn’s (Howard) flirtatious nature.In fact she had a bright mind,a carefull mouth and a calm but spirited demeanour.She offered him a full package and 1)unlike KoA and Anne,she didn’t love him so he didn’t break her heart or make her jealous 2)unlike K.Howard had enough sence not to make HIM jealous…Number six was the charm(thank God he died before he could undo her too and so we didn’t cry a seventh bride).She managed to satisfy him without a son or displaying her looks,so I guess it must have been a succesfull marriage in his eyes.
(and something tells me that if she gave him a son then he wouldn’t be so persistent to be burried with Jane)
3:32 pm
August 2, 2010
I personally agree with Kim about who Henry loved truly most: Katherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn. That being said, he couldn’t have well cast Jane Seymour aside given that she gave him what he wanted most, Edward. I think that Katherine Parr was good for him as well though, because she was gentle and soothing and able to put up with his rages. KoA and Anne’s love for Henry and protectiveness/passion ended up getting them into trouble. They were probably Henry’s two soulmates (and I would argue Anne Boleyn as first, KoA as second) but Anne and Henry did not function well because they both had such tempers, and whatever affection Henry retained for KoA left when she defied him–a problem with both Anne and KoA was that they defied him and were stubborn, and as we mentioned before Henry loved to be in power and feel like he was in power, which might have been part of the initial attraction for Jane, Catherine Howard, and Catherine Parr.
"Grumble all you like, this is how it's going to be"