I don't know if Jane was ambitious or not.  I know her family took full advantage of Henry's attention to her. They were certainly ambitious.  Maybe she was as ambitious as they were.  Wasn't everyone at that court ambitious? No matter who Henry set his sights on at that time, the family would have pushed for marriage. He was done with Anne and everyone knew it.  There could be no softening of his heart this time.

The way Anne had achieved becoming Queen was well-known.  She had refused to become Henry'smistress and she had held out for the title of wife and Queen.  It worked.  It not only worked for the Boleyn family, and the Seymour family, it also worked later for the  Howard family. That is just the way these people were. Why would Jane become a mistress when she could become a wife?  Thank God that we will never be in that position, but if we were, which would you rather be?  Wife or mistress?  That is a rhetorical question, because I know we would all run for the hills.

As to Jane's loyalty….She did not like Anne.  She had no loyalty in that direction.  She was Katherine's girl.  Jane was loyal to Katherine and Mary.  By the end, she probably hated Anne, but I don't know that for sure either. If I'm not mistaken, Jane and Anne did not get along at all.  I read some where that their was a lot of slapping going on. 

I still think Jane must have had some trepidation going into this marriage.  She had to produce a son.  There was no question about that. With that kind of pressure, it is no small wonder that she appeared haughty at times.  I wonder what Henry would have done to her if Jane had lived but had produced a daughter?

As much as I see Anne as an enigma: the real Jane Seymour seems absolutely lost to time. While I do not care for Jane (probably more to do with my love of Anne than anything else), I wish there were some historical evidence about who she really was as a person, not the women she and her family wanted people to believe. “The perfect Tudor wife” seems to be a propoganda campaign by Henry and his court to set Jane as the epitome of feminine perfection, as compared to “The Concubine,” Anne Boleyn. It seems this campaign was successful in so many ways.

I believe Jane learned from the best, Anne (probably more than she would ever admit). She learned the qualities Henry wanted in a women, and utilized them to perfection. As much as it pains me to admit, an ambitious and intelligent woman.

Boleynfan said:I agree with Lady: I think Jane Seymour was wily and power-hungry, under a meek, sweet facade. Her entire family was, after all, very ambitious: how could she, growing up as a Seymour, not be? Ignoring Elizabeth and only favoring Mary shows, in my opinion, that she only favored Mary because it was politically savvy, not because she was kind.

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But this is mere conjecture! Jane, as a daughter of the Seymour clan, was most probably ambitious, but this doesn't mean she cannot also have been kind and sweet.  Anne Boleyn was ambitious and vindictive, and yet at the same time she apparently was kind to a lot of people, to those that served her,  etc.  One shouldn't use double standards.

The fact that Jane may have “ignored” Elizabeth proves nothing. Elizabeth was a toddler and therefore pretty irrelevant. Queens weren't supposed to act the part of a mother, and as long as Elizabeth was cared for by her governesses, there was no need for Jane to devote time to her.

I see your point on my and Claire's posts, Iguazu, but I agree with Claire and you say that this is mere conjecture; I agree, we can never truly know the real Jane Seymour, but I've said my guess. Also, I understand you saying that Jane didn't need to pay attention to Elizabeth, but was it fair that she singled out Mary instead of ignoring both or welcoming both into open arms?

Maybe, Iguazu, but I still think Jane should have paid attention, if not equal attention, to Elizabeth. Mary might have been a grown woman and a companion, but Elizabeth was the defenseless child of her husband in a country mansion with little money. Jane, in my opinion, should have extended her “sweetness and charity” to Elizabeth.

True, Bella. She might have developed into a very good Queen, we'll never know. I believe we discussed this in another thread, but while that is probably true, I wonder if Henry would have tired of his meek Queen Jane. He called her his “true wife” but I think only because of Edward. But that's my opinion, and I think Anne was his true love.

I think so too. The only question is: what would have happened to her? As the mother of his heir, Henry could hardly have the marriage declared null and void because then Edward would be considered illegitimate…

Yes, I think so too, Iguazu.

Bella44 said:Anne was definitely his one true love – Jane got Henry on the rebound!  But I think he would have tired of her sooner in some way or another even if she was the mother of the heir.  Henry had rather a short attention span when it came to women.

Jane would have had to have been very careful and very quiet had she lived.  By this time Henry was an explosion waiting to happen.  She would have had to walk on eggshells around him.  Edward would have been shipped out as all children were.  Knowing Henry, he would have wanted more than one son from Jane.  If she didn't continue producing boys, he would have tired of her. Around this time is when he started having bouts of impotence.  Jane would have been blamed for that, you can bet on it. There were no rumors of other women as mistresses after Jane.  Only women who would be potential brides.  Her death was unfortunate because we will never know what might have happened in their marriage, and I would never wish a person dead, but I”m thinking she lucked out by dying. 

I think that Henry would have grown tired of her eventually. I think that he liked having his ego flattered by Jane's submission to his will but he would have become sick of it. She'd be just one more person who said what he wanted to hear. He could not speak to her as an equal, he could not debate things with her, he could not have a witty tete a tete, he would have become bored. However, I don't think that his boredom with Jane would have led to a divorce so long as Edward survived. If Edward had died before Henry and Jane did not give birth to another living son, then Henry may have divorced her. I can't see Jane going to a convent for all her prostrations of meekness. Who knows maybe she would have met a fate akin to Anne's?