Ooh – I've just come across this thread now!  And can I say that, yes, I think AOC had a large nose too?!  I think Holbein  by painting her full on managed to hide that little imperfection.  Although why Henry should be upset by that little thing after Jane Seymour beats me!!!!

But I don't think it was just AOC's looks that put Henry off.  It was her dismissal of him after his sad attempts to impress her at Rochester and as you say E, it was probably one of the few times he saw himself as he really was through her eyes.

I've often wondered, if Anne was French or Spanish instead of from one of the German states, if Henry would have treated her the same way?  If maybe a little bit of English xenophobia (no offense to anyone from England!) didn't come into play?  Spain and France were always who England was competing against and trying to outdo whereas Cleves may have been seen by some as more of a backwater and anyone from there was perhaps viewed by people as being not as good and therefore more dispensable? 

Catalina said:

 But I suppose he was a king and another marriage was expected of him.  But regardless of that, I just for a minute thought perhaps he was just too hung up on Jane as his perfect queen given that she had given him his long anticipated son.

Definately, he knew another marriage was expected of him and he, of all people, was aware of the value of a Duke of York in the hand.

There were several problems with an immediate re-marriage

1) he didn't have a new woman waiting her turn

2) there was a lack of suitable French or Spanish noblewomen who were prepared to marry him

3) the sheer amount of time it took to get anywhere making negoiations tricky if the ambassors had little freedom to make offers and counter-offers.

E said:

I saw a different pic on AoC, I think it was at Hever… Her nose was much larger and really made a difference to her face.. x rays have been taken of the Holbein to reveal a larger nose also. I would have thought Holbein would have had a bit of a smack too- did he leave England in this period? Maybe he took a holiday till the Kings wrath had subsided- particularly in view of the fact that Cromwell lost his head due to this marriage..

I believe that H8 (hehe H'ate) was initially rejected by AoC who was confused at their first meeting and wondering why this unannounced stinky fat old man was kissing her. I think, through her, he saw himself exactly as he really was- and didn't like it one little bit. I believe this is why he had such an instant dislike of her..

This is based on something I've read about their first meeting.. which is the same account as Ellimariana.. I can't remember where I've read it…

Sounds like Starkey to me! The conventions of courtly love meant the woman should recognise her suitor in disguise to prove true love. Anne hadn't been educated in very much at all, other than needlework, so didn't get it. As a result, she behaved properly by not letting this 'merchant' get too close to her. Henry still thought of himself as the handsomest prince in Christendom, so it was a very rude awakening. As Holbein appears to have painted the miniature of Catherine Howard in the jewels Henry gave her as a wedding present he doesn't seem to have been away from court for too long!

Too good at creating images of himself that Henry liked! Also, didn't he die of plague in the 1540s?

Been meaning to post this thought for a while but kept getting distracted. I like your crackpot theory Catalina. It does make an element of sense. And is very plausible.

Personally I can’t see anything wrong with AOC, her German dress of course did nothing for her. As for the meeting in Rochester castle. I actually wonder if Henry’s lackeys actually told the truth to her about Henry’s appearence. I know that she knew little to no English, didn’t play a musical instrument, sing or play any games, as Anne’s brother felt that education etc were not neccessary for a woman.
Being in a tiny part of the Germanic provices I don’t expect her brother and his court actually had much to do with the big wigs, such as France and Spain. Although Anne was taught how to play a few card games on the boat over. Perhaps the reason she wasn’t told the truth about Henry’s appearence was because he’d been rejected by 2 or maybe 3 of the bigger wig princesses, and basically things were desperate back at base camp, with only one son as the heir.
I don’t even know if Anne had even seen a portrait of Henry. If she had I’m sure it would have been one that was done when he was young and fit. Small wonder then that she was so revolted by what she saw in Rochester.Henry’s lackeys really could say Henry was a stinking old walrus who thinks his farts don’t smell, otherwise they are liable to find themselves a head shorter,
So to be honest the whole marriage business was built completely on a bed of lies, or half truths. Cromwell too was deceived as he too must have heard reports that Anne was prettier than she actually was.
Henry said she stunk to high heaven, Well he wasn’t exactly smelling like roses in fact far from it he probably smelt like the stuff they put round roses to nourish them.
Perhaps if Anne was given a crash six month course in Cleves with English ladies teaching her the why’s and what’s of English court etiquette things would have worked out differently for her.
But fair play to her in settling for second best. Being Henry’s adopted sister and having a good pension plus living in England even through it meant she had to cast off her brother in Cleves. One wonders why she didn’t send for her sister though?