Anyanka said

Sharon said

There’s that “woe is me” thing again. Henry said that? Of all the men living at that time, it surprises me that that would come out of his mouth since he chose every one of his wives with the exception of AOC’s and he prompltly divorced her when he discovered he didn’t like her looks.

I have to find a good book about the Duke. Anybody know of one?

Didn’t the poor dear have to be begged by parliment to re-marry following Anne’s execution?

Yeah that was what was allegedly supposed to have been said.. His council went to him Caps in hand went down on the knees and grovelled to him to remarry as he needed a son for the comfort of the realm and for himself. Bah Humbug Henry.
He said as much himself at the Blackfriars trial.. He wanted a divorce from K.O.A not because of any displeasure against her but for the safety of his realm he must marry again and produce an heir.
Henry as I said somewhere before Henry was a master manipulater. He could make people feel sorry for him even when it was so blatently obvious he was the one in the wrong.

Anyanka said

Boleyn said

Anyanka said

Sharon said

There’s that “woe is me” thing again. Henry said that? Of all the men living at that time, it surprises me that that would come out of his mouth since he chose every one of his wives with the exception of AOC’s and he prompltly divorced her when he discovered he didn’t like her looks.

I have to find a good book about the Duke. Anybody know of one?

Didn’t the poor dear have to be begged by parliment to re-marry following Anne’s execution?

Yeah that was what was allegedly supposed to have been said.. His council went to him Caps in hand went down on the knees and grovelled to him to remarry as he needed a son for the comfort of the realm and for himself. Bah Humbug Henry.
He said as much himself at the Blackfriars trial.. He wanted a divorce from K.O.A not because of any displeasure against her but for the safety of his realm he must marry again and produce an heir.
Henry as I said somewhere before Henry was a master manipulater. He could make people feel sorry for him even when it was so blatently obvious he was the one in the wrong.

To be fair to Henry, England had been riddled with fractional wars since 1399, when Henry of Bolingbroke deposed Richard II. Henry himself was threatened by the Cornish Revolt when with his mother and sisters he fled to the Tower for safety.

The thought of a petticoat government horrified not only Henry but his advisors as well.So it was essential that a king left a legitimate male heir. The idea that a woman could not only be a political leader as well as a military leader and following the Reformation, a religious leader was such an extreme notion, many male minds would have boiled at the though.

Thank You Anyanka
Yes this is very true. The mear thought of a woman ruling was a major nightmare for everyone. Woman weren’t made to be rulers or hold any position of power other then within their own households, and even then her husband had the final say. Woman simply hadn’t got the dangleberries to do anything right, they allowed their womanly softness to get in the way. England had tried it once with Matilda and didn’t like it.
However woman rulers did work occationly, the great Isabella of Castille proved to all that she was a force to be reckoned with and I don’t think Margeret of Burgundy? did too bad of a job either.
Woman were entirely subservient to the will of their husbands.
You must admit that Elizabeth proved all the doubters wrong, that no woman could rule alone and be an effective force to be reckoned with when the chips were down, and this is where Philip slipped up, he felt that he could dominate Elizabeth as he did Mary. Elizabeth was as much as a master manipulater in her way as Henry was, however Elizabeth had none of her father spite and vindictiveness when in the manpulative mood, her motives were one of allow the person to think they have trapped you into a corner and then turn around and bite his/her head off, and that exactly how she treated Philip. Philip believed that Elizabeth would be a stupid as a sister. Mary had given in to him time and time again and given him money for various things and he saw Elizabeth in much the same way. She allowed him to think he was in charge (loosesly worded) and then turned around and showed just who was the boss, and that he wanted to keep his dangleberries he had better back off. In short she played him like a fiddle.
Good old Queen Bess.

Louise said

Hi Boleyn,
The David Head book wasn’t suggesting that Norfolk was against the Catherine Howard marriage because he had a conscience. He was suggesting he was anxious that Catherine wasn’t suitable to be queen and that if the marriage ended in disaster then Norfolk’s own position and influence would be damaged.
Cromwell was keen for an alliance with Germany, in particular the Schmalkalden League, hence him putting Anne of Cleve’s forward.

Thank you Louise. But to be honest if Duke Poppingjay did think that he was right for once. K.H’s somewhat stupid behaviour did reflect badly on him., and he did lose a lot of his credibility in Henry’s eyes, when K.H’s gremlins came crawling out of the woodwork.

I got admire Elizabeth’s stance on the whole Marriage issue. When Cecil asked her at the council’s insistance to marry and secure the succession.
She rounded on the whole lot on them “If I had been born crested instead of cloven you wouldn’t have dared speak to me thus” The funny thing is they all backed down and looked very sheepish.
Henry was a terrible hypocrite when you think about it. He slammed Mary his sister for her somewhat indecent marriage with Charles Brandon and yet was perfectly happy to do the same thing with Anne Boleyn/Jane Seymour 10 days after Anne’s death he married Jane without so much of a tremble.
I will give him a modicum of credit though he did wait almost 2 years before marrying AOC and a year after K.H death before marrying again.

This true Sharon.. If memory serves when Jane was in Labour and the Midwife reported to him that Jane was in difficulties and the doctor thought about giving Jane a ceaserion (Which I don’t think actually happened it was more likely that it was an episitomy) Henry was alledged to have said Save the Child another wife can easily be found. Although that was probably poetic licence I believe that Henry would have been perfectly able to say something like this and not given it a second thought.
Cromwell put forward the suggestion towards Henry of a marrying Anne of Cleves maybe as little as a few days afterJane’s death.
Which actuallly makes me wonder just what Cromwell was up to? It actually makes me wonder if the whole idea of a Cleves marriage was known to Henry anyway and that he was waiting around to see what would happen with Jane. A son and she was safe. A daughter and she had to go.
I don’t think Henry is quite as innocent in the whole Cromwell/Cleves debarcle.