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6:49 am
So, I’ve been doing a bit of reading on them recently and I just want something to be cleared up: plenty of sources I’ve read say that Dudley was Elizabeth’s favourite, but were they ever in an actual relationship beyond that or not (romantic or otherwise)?
10:18 am
January 3, 2012
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I don’t believe they were lovers, they just had a very close freindship. She probably told him things that she couldn’t have told others, and that included Kat Ashley, who was like a mother to her.
Robert was perhaps the only person who treated her as a woman, strange as that sounds, with him, she could be Elizabeth, without the royal fiddle faddle.
Aside from Kat Robert could tell her the truth whether she liked it not, I think they loved and cared for each other deeply, but they weren’t in love with each other. Elizabeth had always said she would never marry, and I don’t think she would have married Dudley even if she wanted to, she would have known that it would have been her Royal duty to marry a Prince/Lord/Duke from foriegn shore to enrich England.
In much the same way some people assume that Edward would have married Lady (Queen) Jane Grey due to the fact they were of the same age, and had a close relationship, again he would have known it was his royal duty to marry outside the realm.
I’ll give you a little tit bit here, when you get round to the suitors of Elizabeth, one of them was Ivan the terrible, although I think the idea only passed as far as words. Ivan was looking for a meek submissive wife, and you really can’t say that about Elizabeth..
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
3:13 am
November 18, 2010
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I have to agree with Boleyn.
I seriously doubt they were lovers. I believe they had known each other in childhood. I think they had shared tutors with Edward and possibly Jane Grey.
Elizabeth wasn’t naive enough to expect she wouldn’t marry if her father, brother or sister really forced her to. The monarch’s will was the will of God after all.
She did avoid being married under Mary simply because Mary didn’t want Elizabeth to marry and have children before Mary herself had had a son for England.
Once Elizabeth was queen then she could and did play the game of looking for a marriage without actually having to say “I Do”. I think if she had failed in her balancing act of keeping England neutral with respect to France and the Habsbergs, she would have been almost forced to marry to protect her kingdom. The security of England was paramount in her eyes. It wasn’t just politics to her. It was personal as well.
As Boleyn said.
they just had a very close freindship. She probably told him things that she couldn’t have told others, and that included Kat Ashley, who was like a mother to her.
Robert was perhaps the only person who treated her as a woman, strange as that sounds, with him, she could be Elizabeth, without the royal fiddle faddle.
Aside from Kat Robert could tell her the truth whether she liked it not,
He was her sounding board. Robert had an insider’s knowledge of the court. Both he and Cecil were the closest she had to male kin. If they spoke, she listened. If they disagreed, she’d reconsider.
Both men were totally devoted to her but both were also devoted to England and at the end of the day. Elizabeth put England first and that meant not marrying for love. And in the end, not marrying at all.
It's always bunnies.
4:09 am
This is just what I was thinking. While I can definitely see why they’re often theorized to be lovers, I was always under the impression that they were close friends rather than being in any sort of romantic or sexual relationship.
8:29 pm
January 3, 2012
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Elizabeth always stated that marriage meant death. And you can see why. Firstly it meant the death of her as a single woman, secondly it meant death in the sense she would have to surrender, some of the big potty to a man. Men were considered superior and therefore better able to rule, whereas a woman role was having babies and being the submissive little woman, and keeping her mouth shut, when her husband ruled the kingdom and had a jiggle with whomever he fancied. Marriage may have also led to death in fact if as it happened with Jane S, in childbirth.
Elizabeth wanted and knew the only way to live was to remain as she was. She alone sat on the big potty and belted people with the big stick, I love the way she took the male dominated world by the throat and shook it until it rattled, she showed the world just what one woman can do alone..
England was in a right old pickle after the death of PB, it turned was upside down and inside out after the death of Edward and got even bloodier and broken with Mary. She sorted it out in terms of religion, steering the mid line (Not making windows into men’s souls) managed to rebuild a empty exchecker, defeated the Spanish and died leaving the country peaceful and properious. She was given the funeral fit for an empress and it was well deserved too. Viva Elizabeth..
I often wonder what PB and Anne would have thought about Elizabeth?
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
8:21 pm
February 24, 2010
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I do think Elizabeth loved Robert. I think he was her best friend. She always wanted him close, but I don’t think she wanted him in her bed. Or at least she was smart enough to keep him out of her bed. Elizabeth was born to rule. Had she taken a husband, she would be in the background.
Elizabeth decided early on that she would not marry. Robert tried to persuade her to marry him, but she wasn’t having it. There are many reasons. Katherine of Aragon had several miscarriages which led to her father dumping her. Elizabeth may not have known Katherine, but she did certainly know the details of the marriage. Her mother was beheaded by her father, as was Katherine Howard. Katherine Parr died in childbirth. Jane died in childbirth. Mary had wanted children but could not get pregnant, and suffered greatly thinking she was. Henry got rid of two wives when they did not produce sons. All of this affected Elizabeth to the point where she decided marriage was not for her.
Men ruled. Elizabeth was not going to be ruled.
When she first became Queen, everyone thought she and Robert were having an affair. I think she was having the time of her young life, but I do not believe Elizabeth would have compromised herself by sleeping with Robert. Her decision not to marry had been made long before she came to the throne. There would be no marriage for her except the one to England.
12:01 pm
January 3, 2012
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Elizabeth liked the thrill of the chase, where men were concerned I believe. PB was a master at the thrill of the chase, after all look how he pursued Anne for 7 years. He changed the world for her, but once he had her he lost interest and looked around for someone new to woo.
Elizabeth however wasn’t interested in owning any man, she just liked the chase bit, men would have given her the world just to own her but she would have none of it.
In many ways I see a little of Anne here, when PB made his intentions know he wanted to bed Anne, Anne basically wasn’t interested there would be no future in it for her and all that would happen at the end of it she would be forever known as 1 of the King’s cast off lovers.
Because of it PB was all the more determined to have her one way or another. We all know the outcome to what happened to Anne when she gave in to PB flatterings and fair persuasions.
Elizabeth had also seen first hand how PB wooed someone as she had with K.H and again what happened afterwards too.
She had also seen PB play people off against one another and how they would try to outdo each other just so they could get one up on each other. She would have seen just how far people would be prepared to go as well to buy PB favour.
As stated in Elizabeth R “All affection is false” and that is exactly how she felt. She did love Robert and theirs was a deep long lasting love too, but it wasn’t a love that would lead to sex or marriage, it was based on something much deeper, something that perhaps we will never be able to comprehend.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
4:57 pm
I think Elizabeth and Robert were in love. After having known each other for so long their love did indeed deepen into a friendship that withstood his later marriage to Lettice. While I think Elizabeth might have wanted to marry Robert in her heart she knew she couldn’t. The reasons were many….she would have become subservient to a husband, England would have been then ruled by Robert, dissent would have have ensued by promoting one from within the ranks. Beyond those issues becoming pregnant had its risks namely if she would have died during childbirth. Then England might have been plunged into civil war over the arguments of who should succeed her.
Elizabeth was sovereign who would have no other master but I think a loving spouse who would not have competed with her, ruled her or usurped her in anyway would have provided Elizabeth with the intimate companionship she might have needed. Someone to talk to in those lonely hours.
Someone to love her regardless of her status, power or disintegrating beauty.
Thankfully the world has changed and the current Elizabeth has reigned with the help and support of a strong and independent husband and been able to experience the joy of motherhood which of course has allowed her to leave an heir and a spare.
