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8:43 am
February 16, 2009
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As far as TOBG is concerned, it’s not just the characters who believe that Anne and George committed incest, PG suggests that it is her belief too. In the author’s Q&A section in my copy of the book, there is a question about the incest charge and PG answers it, saying:
“Nobody can know the answer to this one. Anne was accused of adultery with George at their trials and his wife gave evidence against them both. Most people think the trial was a show trial, but it is an interesting accusation. Anne had three miscarriages by the time of her trial, and she was not a woman to let something like sin or crime stand in her way—she was clearly guilty of one murder. I think if she had thought that Henry could not bear a son she was quite capable of finding someone to father a child on her. If she thought that, then George would have been the obvious choice.”
There is so much wrong with that answer!
There’s no evidence that Jane gave evidence against George and Anne, Anne had not had three miscarriages, Anne was not guilty of murder and why would George be the obvious choice if she did want to risk her head and her conscience by committing adultery.
Just thought I’d throw that in to the argument 
Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn
9:49 am
October 28, 2011
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Starkey was listed on the credits Claire, sorry I haven’t seen it in a long time but my partner pointed it out to me as I was reading one of his books at the time. When I googled it he came up as a “technical advisor” on the Tudors in the Wiki article on him. So I don’t know if that’s correct or not, but I do remember seeing his name on the credits somewhere.
The Boleyn Inheritance was written before Julia Fox’s book came out when it was still widely accepted that Jane testified against George, so I let her pass on that, but quite frankly I hate the book itself. And yes I read that statement when I first read TOBG and it didn’t convince me that it was true.
Not everyone is easily led.
11:51 am
January 3, 2012
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Claire said
David Starkey was not a consultant on The Tudors, he hated it and was all over the press saying that it brought shame on the BBC for televising it. Justin Pollard was the historian consultant for all four series of The Tudors. Just thought I’d clear that up as Starkey would have smoke coming out of his ears if he read that!
I’m sure I read it somewhere, that Dr Dave was involved somewhere with The Tudors.. Maybe I read it wrong.
Either way given the amount of poetic liberties that were taken I agree that Dr Dave wouldn’t have been happy, I did enjoy the Tudors though. I see it as a soap opera nothing more. I do feel that there are bits in it that could well have happened in the way they have been portrayed. Such as Fisher and More’s deaths, and K.O.A being turned out of the palace, whilst Anne and Henry went hunting.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
12:13 pm
February 16, 2009
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Perhaps he was listed on the credits because they used his book or Pollard spoke to him. I would think it weird for him to be so vocally anti the series if he was involved in any way. I don’t know.
Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn
12:17 pm
April 9, 2011
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When I was reading TOBG, I interpreted the story to be that Mary thought that Anne and George had plotted something to get her pregnant and the way it was written I interpreted to be that perhaps George found a man for Anne to sleep with. Maybe I was a naive reader at the time to get that interpretation. For me the novel does not really spell out that incest occurred or possibly even contemplated. As opposed to the movie where it is made perfectly clear that the two contemplated incest. For me the movie is more damaging in perpetuating that myth compared to the novel.
As I’ve said a number of times, I found George to be a sympathetic character in the novel and one that was conflicted with the way the court wanted him to behave and the man he wanted to be. I found him to be a very caring brother. And if death is not an option, I would choose the George of TOBG novel of George of The Tudors anyday. I personally think George is painted in a good light in the book and even though it has ‘convinced’ people Geroge was gay, I think the book does a good job of painting George as a good person in Henry’s court, just a very conflicted person. When I watched the Tudors, I disliked the george character and I kept hoping that he would at least turn into the version presented in TOBG to make his story more pleasant.
12:38 pm
January 3, 2012
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I’ve been thinking about this one most of the night.. Anne and George’s close relationship as brother and sister is no different to what Henry and Mary (his sister) would have been. Henry clearly adored his sister and she she adored him too. So this makes the accusation of incest between Anne and George even more pathetic. I can I word this without getting a ruler across the knuckles. If we believe that Anne and George had an incestious relationship then because of the same bond Henry had with Mary could we not accuse him of doing likewise? (Ouch)
The whole invention of the incest charge came from Cromwell, he needed something more than just supposed marital affair’s with Smeaton, Norris, Brereton. Smeaton was the only one supposed to have confessed to having sex with Anne but he only confessed to it under torture, where in to today’s world it would be clearly be inadmissiable in court as being unrealiable. There were 3 people saying no way did we diddle with Anne and 1 saying yes I did because of torture, who would you believe? Just because 1 person says yeah I did it, doesn’t make it true does it?
However you can prove something is right a million times but you only have to prove it wrong once and it makes it wrong. So the weight of evidence doesn’t neccessarly prove it right or wrong..
Anne was an innocent victim, as were the others accused with her in Henry/Cromwell twisted game called Tudor Court life.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
3:25 pm
February 16, 2009
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I actually think the incest charge came from Henry. I believe that Cromwell could have got Henry his annulment without muddying the waters and making such a complicated case, but Henry wanted Anne and her memory completely blackened. The incest charge strikes me as very personal.
Debunking the myths about Anne Boleyn
5:38 pm
November 18, 2010
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Claire said
I actually think the incest charge came from Henry. I believe that Cromwell could have got Henry his annulment without muddying the waters and making such a complicated case, but Henry wanted Anne and her memory completely blackened. The incest charge strikes me as very personal.
ITA Claire, it was an attempt to deflect any lingering doubts about Anne’s character and morals. It turned her into the sl*ttyest sl*t of the Tudor court. And that image of Anne continues down to this day.
Didn’t Henry say there were more than 100 men who had slept with Anne??
It's always bunnies.
6:29 pm
February 24, 2010
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All the charges seem personal to me. I know people say he was blindsided by the charges, but I’m not buying it, Henry. If that were true, he might have acted just a wee bit put out instead of partying every night as he did during that horrific month. Henry wanted Anne’s reputation ruined and he helped Cromwell with the ammunition needed for the lawyer to put together a splendid case against her. I don’t think it was done out of hate either. Anne could not give him a son and he just shut her out of his life. She no longer existed to him. The replacement was waiting in the wings.
I think Henry was calculating and cunning. What would truly devastate Anne’s reputation in the eyes of the world? Accuse her of adultery with no less than four men. Arrset as many men as possible to make it look real, and then top it off by charging her and her brother with incest. Accusations that would devastate a queen’s reputation forever. And Cromwell built the case against all of them. Henry knew she liked the company of her courtiers, and he knew how close Anne and George were to each other. Brothers and sisters all over the world probably looked at each other differently after that accusation stuck! Did he feel any qualms about these charges? It doesn’t appear that they troubled him at all.
I think the only time his lies caught up with him, and his loss of Anne hit him square, was when he was talking to Richmond and he started to cry saying Anne wanted to poison him and Mary. Just an opinion, but what an act!
7:12 pm
December 5, 2009
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I agree, Sharon. I don’t buy that Cromwell would have acted alone against Anne. It started with Henry. Cromwell did what he had to do, and bringing the implausible charge of incest went above and beyond the brief. That was Henry, but I think it had a lot to do with Anne and George supposedly discussing him in a derogatory manner. Spite and Malice!!
8:11 pm
February 24, 2010
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Oh yes, the remarks made by Anne and George definitely got Henry’s dander up. Cromwell made a big mistake putting those words in writing and giving the note to George at the trial. If George hadn’t read them out loud, God love him, we wouldn’t know that Henry couldn’t perform well in the bedroom. Joke’s on Henry 500 years later.
Spite and Malice…Exactly!
Anyanka,
“Didn’t Henry say there were more than 100 men who had slept with Anne??”
That was another of his “woe is me” remarks.
12:11 am
November 18, 2010
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Sharon said
Oh yes, the remarks made by Anne and George definitely got Henry’s dander up. Cromwell made a big mistake putting those words in writing and giving the note to George at the trial. If George hadn’t read them out loud, God love him, we wouldn’t know that Henry couldn’t perform well in the bedroom. Joke’s on Henry 500 years later.
Spite and Malice…Exactly!
I think George realised he was going to be executed regardless of what he saidwhich was why he had his last pot-shot at Henry. Which was a shame since, to some people, this was why Anne was rampantly unfaithful …sighs…
Anyanka,
“Didn’t Henry say there were more than 100 men who had slept with Anne??”That was another of his “woe is me” remarks.
For sure….Henry’s Pity Party lasted a very short time if at all in private but he reallly draaggggggged it out in public to the extent of having Parliment beg him to re-marry.
It's always bunnies.
9:28 am
January 3, 2012
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I have to laugh here, as the whole charge of incest is a complete and utter farce. Think about it, why did he divorce KOA? Well in his eyes he’d committed incest by marrying his dead brother’s widow. Then before he told the Pope to “Get stuffed” he asked the Pope to give him a dispensation to marry Anne because he had, had a relationship with Mary (Anne’s sister) again the incest thing. The he used incest to blacken Anne’s name, if anything it was Henry who was guilty of the whole incest idea. I agree with Sharon, although Cromwell did the trumping up and created the evidence against Anne and George it was Henry who gave him the basic outline on the whole kit and caboodle, and told him how to dot the I’s and cross the T’s. That way if anything did go wrong it would fall on Cromwell’s shoulders, not his.. Henry’s conscious, would be clear because it was Cromwell who had invented the evidence against Anne and George etc, therefore it was Cromwell’s fault that they were executed.
Henry’s whole life was one long ride on the self pity railroad. Even though Jane gave him the Son he so desperately wanted and died shortly after, his greif wasn’t for her it was more for himself, the old woe is me, poor bleeding Martyr act was the only thing he could play to perfection, it was the whole husband/King bit he had trouble with. Basically Henry was a spoiled Brat who would throw a paddy like a 2 year old, and then blub and whine, when he felt he was being hard done by. I tell you a good swift kick right in the gentleman’s department would have done him a lot of good, especially with a steel capped boot.
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
1:11 pm
October 1, 2012
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Boleyn said
I have to laugh here, as the whole charge of incest is a complete and utter farce. Think about it, why did he divorce KOA? Well in his eyes he’d committed incest by marrying his dead brother’s widow. Then before he told the Pope to “Get stuffed” he asked the Pope to give him a dispensation to marry Anne because he had, had a relationship with Mary (Anne’s sister) again the incest thing. The he used incest to blacken Anne’s name, if anything it was Henry who was guilty of the whole incest idea. I agree with Sharon, although Cromwell did the trumping up and created the evidence against Anne and George it was Henry who gave him the basic outline on the whole kit and caboodle, and told him how to dot the I’s and cross the T’s. That way if anything did go wrong it would fall on Cromwell’s shoulders, not his.. Henry’s conscious, would be clear because it was Cromwell who had invented the evidence against Anne and George etc, therefore it was Cromwell’s fault that they were executed.
Henry’s whole life was one long ride on the self pity railroad. Even though Jane gave him the Son he so desperately wanted and died shortly after, his greif wasn’t for her it was more for himself, the old woe is me, poor bleeding Martyr act was the only thing he could play to perfection, it was the whole husband/King bit he had trouble with. Basically Henry was a spoiled Brat who would throw a paddy like a 2 year old, and then blub and whine, when he felt he was being hard done by. I tell you a good swift kick right in the gentleman’s department would have done him a lot of good, especially with a steel capped boot.
Perhaps THAT’S why he wore the “cod piece”!!!!! 
1:32 pm
January 3, 2012
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If Stephen Hawking could build his folding time machine, and we could go back in time. Henry would haddock a piece of mind with steel capped kicks to go with it.. LOL..
Semper Fidelis, quod sum quod
3:17 pm
December 5, 2009
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12:31 pm
April 9, 2011
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Oh Louise you got me all excited that there was a new post related to George. Unless there is a new post and my computer hates me – which is quite possible as we are currently not on good talking terms.
5:55 pm
December 5, 2009
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Bill, I’m sorry!
I wrote something that I later thought was a bit silly and removed. So it’s not your computer, so that’s good.
6:42 pm
May 3, 2013
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The poem was great, actually. 
Sadly, by the time I came to comment on it, it’d turned into blank verse. 
12:58 pm
December 5, 2009
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Not a great deal is known about George Boleyn’s prison experience. He was arrested on 2nd May at York Place, but the arrest was so secretive that it was not known about until the following day. He arrived at the Tower at about 2.00 pm that day, a few hours before Anne.
We don’t know what he was doing at York Place or whether he was trying to get to Henry. I hate to think that he was arrested merely to stop him getting to Henry and that the charges were concocted afterwards to ensure he was kept silent. We don’t have any details of the arrest, who actually arrested him, or his response. We don’t know whether he arrived at the Tower by barge. We don’t have any knowledge of his reaction at the time or whether it was explained to him precisely what he was being charged with. It’s incredibly frustrating. I think it safe to say he was probably in shock and that he was extremely frightened.
We don’t know where he was housed in the Tower or whether he was allowed attendants/servants. As a lord of the realm he may well have been allowed a personal servant to attend on him, but we don’t know for sure. It’s been theorised that he was housed in Martin’s Tower, but I have never found a primary source to confirm that. If he was then he would have had a lovely view of Tower Hill and his scaffold being built!
It’s only from the letters of Kingston to Cromwell that we get a hint of the distress George was in and his response to the horror. When he received his wife’s letter asking how he was and promising to get him a hearing before the council, he was very tearful and complained bitterly to Kingston that he believed he would not get a hearing before the council until he came to his trial.
Unlike the portrayals in The Tudors and Mantel’s book, there is no evidence that George was interrogated by Cromwell. In fact, as Kingston was writing to Cromwell about the siblings, it’s more likely that Cromwell didn’t see either Anne or George prior to their hearings.
Likewise, we know from Kingston’s letters that George was in correspondence with Cromwell during his imprisonment, which gives credence to the fact that Cromwell actually didn’t have the stomach for a face to face meeting with the victim of the travesty. The interrogation is complete fiction. As far as George being interrogated by anyone is concerned the only evidence we have is a letter sent by Thomas Audley to the King which states that neither George nor Henry Norris would admit to anything. Clearly, therefore, the allegations had been put to him at some stage, but whether he was told precisely what he would be charged with, and who informed him, is unknown.
The fact that George was sending letters to Cromwell also indicated that, as far as George was concerned, there was no overt animosity between the pair. George certainly didn’t blame Cromwell for the position he was in.
What does come through from Kingston’s letters is the respect he seemed to have for George, and the apparent kindness he showed him. Kingston was merely George’s prison warder but George seemed to trust him as a man he had known for years, possibly since childhood. I can’t help but think that Kingston knew he was innocent, and treated him accordingly.
Save for breaking down on one occasion shortly after his arrest, which is fairly understandable given the circumstances, George’s whole demeanour seems to have been of bravery and stoic acceptance. That’s why I get so hot under the collar by the likes of Mantel. How dare she, and Hirst in The Tudors, have the audacity to portray him as a coward, who either sobs as he’s being questioned by Cromwell, or sobs at his trial and has to be offered a seat in case he faints? It is so shameful.
Far from holding George in contempt, Cromwell praised beyond measure the sense, wit and courage of, not only Anne, but also George following their condemnations; a fact conveniently overlooked by those seeking to show George Boleyn in a less than positive light.
In fact, after his condemnation George seemed more concerned for those he owed money to. he even read out a list of those he owed money to. He didn’t rail against the injustice; he took it on the chin as that was the honourable thing to do. When told later that he would die on 17th, he was said by Kingston to have taken it very well, promising Kingston that he would do his best to be ready. It makes my heart bleed.
PS: I often read on other forums people commenting about poor Anne watching George die. What about poor bloody George!!!!!!
