Hey Bella and I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in my feelings about Margaret. I think you've hit exactly on everything I've felt about her or imagined about her, and I believe you're right in saying that Henry VII likely sought her advice more than he did having 'pillow talk' with his Queen. I know that Henry VII was also aloof in many things, suspicious too, but I still see him going to mom on occasion.

Do you or does anyone recall whether this might be true or not: Henry VIII was very close to his grandmother. I keep thinking I saw a source for that not long ago but now can't remember where I saw it.

I guess because we know so much about even the childhoods of Henry VIII, Elizabeth, Edward VI, Mary I, even Jane Grey(!!) that curiosity wants me to know more about the woman who — as you said — was the matriarch of the Tudor dynasty. I thought I read once about her and her child seeking the protection of Pembroke Castle while Jasper Tudor defended it. I mean, here is this fairly important woman and yes, I know more about Elizabeth Wydville and Elizabeth of York than I do her (and I do realize that records about women weren't necessarily as detailed as those of males).

Part of it may even be the romantic in me if that makes sense: did she love Edmund? (Did he even care about his child-bride or was this solely some political marriage of the legitimized Beauforts and the son of a Queen Dowager?) Did she love her other husbands? Did her son admire her, fear her or both? What were her feelings towards the other Tudors: her Yorkist daughter-in-law (I think you're right Bella — I get the feeling she was the original mother-in-law from Hell LOL although Eleanor of Acquitaine might have given her a run for the money); Arthur, Henry, Margaret and Mary; Katherine of Aragon?

I'm with you. Lord knows what Gregory will concoct, but I'm hoping Norton will give the woman a fair hearing and more insight than we've had from more scholarly works on her.

That seems to be the one thing we can all agree on as far as her personality: cold and aloof, which is often how I hear her son being described, so perhaps the apple didn't fall far from that tree! (That's such a contrast to the youthful Renaissance prince that was Henry VIII or the passionate Elizabeth). I wonder what made Margaret that way though and that seems to be the thing that is so puzzling to me as a student of history. Maybe she did have a sense of her own destiny or that of her son (trying not to get too Phillippa Gregory here after reading a bunch of excerpts from The Red Queen) — she was definitely his #1 supporter! And probably his greatest influence. (Which now has me “seeing” her behind every plot of Henry VII's reign LOL).

I would have LOVED to have been a fly on the wall during Christmastime with the Tudors! Would have given Henry II's family in The Lion in Winter a run for the emotional money!

Curious — is it true she got Elizabeth Wydville banished from court? Too much competition?

Impish_Impulse said:

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According to http://www.tudorhistory.org/pe…..woodville/

“Even though her daughter became Henry VII's queen, she may have been involved in a treasonous plot against the king, and was deprived of her dower (1487) and retired to Bermondsey Abbey.”

So, who knows? That's a good enough 'reason' to get rid of someone else as bossy as herself, right? It might have been true, or it might have been as 'true' as Henry VIII accusing Anne Boleyn of adultery and incest, which I don't believe for a minute. Maybe that's where the Tudors got their knack for smearing and then exiling/imprisoning/executing anyone who got in their way – from Margaret Beaufort! Let's say I don't believe PG's view of MB – “Saint's Knees”, my foot.

Well, I'm just now getting a chance to catch-up on some of my email — I worked nearly 10 hours overtime on top of my regular 8, and I took off Monday night to get some rest! So it's always no nice to find new entries on the AB forum!

“Retired.” That's a good way to put it. I guess that form of retirement is preferable to having charges trumped up on you and then getting beheaded at the Tower, but then again, what better punishment than to cut her off from her surviving children and her grandchildren as well, while your matriarchal rival in the War of the Roses is pretty much equal in royal status to the King himself.

When I saw your mention of Bermondsey Abbey Impish_Impulse, I thought it sounded familiar so I looked it up. Sure enough, it was the same abbey that Katherine of Valois was “retired” to. Tiny bit of irony there I guess. You have the woman who would be considered the true matriarch of the Tudor dynasty — thanks to her relationship with Owen Tudor — banished there, as well as the woman who was amongst the final flowering of the York dynasty.

I'm with you though about the Tudors and their tendency “for smearing and then exiling/imprisoning/executing anyone who got in their way”. I always considered that among their greatest faults (hmm…that and possibly paranoia??), that if it came down to it, they would get rid of or set aside even their most loyal of subjects if it suited them: whether it was Anne Boleyn, Sir Thomas More,  Cardinal Wolsey, Thomas Cromwell or Richard Empson and Edmund Dudley.

Oh one other thing: you're right about Ms. PG. I'm not buying what she's selling either. And from what little I read of her version of Margaret Beaufort and her “saints knees,” she's a total bore and no Joan of Arc!