We have no idea what their feelings towards each other were. What we do know is that both Katherine and Jane (Rochford) claimed he initiated the meetings, whilst he claimed that Katherine and Jane started them. We also know that neither admitted to having sex, but Thomas did confess that he did intend to (and claimed that she wanted the same, though we can’t judge that too acutely as Katherine said nothing of the sort either way.) There is not enough evidence to suggest how he felt about her, though we know that Katherine seems to have held some affection for him since her letter reveals as such. However contrary to the show, she did not declare “I would rather die the wife of Culpeper” on top of the scaffold, so evidently her feelings for him weren’t too strong.

A Thomas Culpeper raped a woman and killed a man some time before the relationship with Katherine started, and it is from this evidence that I think the show based their portrayal of Culpeper. However there were two Thomas Culpepers around at court at the same time and it might not have been our one that was a rapist/murderer. An interesting thing to note, however, is that the Thomas who raped the woman/killed the man was pardoned by the King, and we know that our Thomas had a good relationship with the King. In truth, however, there is little way of knowing for definite.

The show’s logic is understandable, however: a man who committed rape and murder and got away with it because of the King’s favour could easily be imagined to be the sort to go after the Queen if she was young, pretty and seemingly compliant. There could be the gaining of power over her to be achieved, and he, being the King’s groom, would know what state the King was in physically. It makes sense why the show took the approach that it did, and it has been theorised that maybe Thomas Culpeper suspected that Henry was close to death, and he imagined he might marry Katherine when she became Dowager/Regent to Edward after Henry died. However all of this is just speculation and it brings us no closer to understanding the real Culpeper’s motives.

The other Thomas, our Thomas’ brother, worked for Cromwell. I think he was older. He had been in a knife fight at one point. Our Thomas seems to have been the charming, ladies man. He easily won the hearts of the women at court. I have a feeling that he could have won the heart of the woman involved in the rape case had he wanted her. But then again, I wouldn’t put it past a group of young men who are full of themselves to go too far.

Boleyn, Henry pardoned whichever brother it was who raped that girl and killed a man. So, I guess it depends on how deep the king’s affection run for the culprit as to whether he would send them to the block or let them completely off the hook. You gave Henry a little more credit than you usually give him.

Oh and rotting dog’s pizzle.

Sharon.. Didn’t want you thinking my brain has completely siezed up, or I’d gone to sleep (Fat (Henry) chance on that one. Bloody Insomnia)
Anyway Larry (Barnettbuff) has been dying for me to give the forum my opinion on B******chops.

Henry is a complete and utter pile of S***, whose only redeeming quality is the fact that he’s dead. Which is for the best because if he was alive I would pick up my very large polo mallet put on my Steel toecapped boots and go and stove his fat f****** head in for him, scoop up what was left put it through the blender and bung him into my log burning stove.
I think that just about covers it Larry…

Lorna, on a serious note — do you think H8 was always a pr**k? Or did he develop that character in later years (after his youth)?

To be honest Larry I think that perhaps as Olga I believe said it, that Henry always had these traits within him, but they were largely kept under control. Once he had read Tindale’s book, all hell broke loose. I believe Thomas More said “If the lion knew his own strength then no man could hold him.” and it was quite true as well Onece Henry was given apsolute power it corrupted him apsolutely. But I also think Henry wasn’t prepared to take the consequences of what having apsolute power gave him.
Reforming the church I will give him some credit for (Jeez I must be ill twice in one day credit for lard arse) Before Henry destroyed the church, people did rather walk around with rose coloured specs on. The Church literely ruled people’s lives. The King made laws etc, but only if the church said ok. Once Henry had done away with all that marlarky, he showed the people they were in charge of their own destinies, and they were free to worship God how (he) they wanted them too. I’m convinced that if Henry hadn’t cut out the rot with the Church, then it’s quite possible that England would still be very blinkered in their world view of things. That we would perhaps still been a little backwards in coming forward if that makes sence. I don’t think we would be a Catholic country however we would probably be as we are with many faiths/credos/way of life/beliefs, but perhaps not quite as tolerant as we are towards other faith/credos/way of life/beliefs although to be honest our tolerence of late is pushed to limit.
Woman’s lib would have happened but not when it first became known of in the day’s of Emerline Pankhurst, Woman were really only excepted as equal to men in the war years, when they had to do the jobs that men would normally do someone had to work the land and man/woman the factories, but after the war woman were expected to get back behind the sink etc. The 60’s/70’s is when that idea got blasted out of the window. If Henry’s England of his early years still ruled here I think that woman equality would be still be very new here possibly only have happened in the 80’s by way of the kids born in the 50’s and 60’s.
So in a way Henry did us a favour, but the price was a high one for him to pay.

Yup, it’s always bunnies!
Henry always had a mean streak in him. Thomas More had it right. Once he realized his strength and power could not be questioned, the even tempered virtuous Henry was lost. As a young man he answered to his father. I believe he was chomping at the bit throughout his youth. When his father passed, and he came into his own, his true personality started to show. With the great matter, we see a very cruel Henry start to emerge. That doesn’t just happen. The seeds were always there. And an accident cannot be blamed for his actions at this time in his career. (If an accident can be blamed at all.)

Again with the compliments, Boleyn? Twice in one day! Henry’s idea of reformation was nothing in comparison to that of his son or his daughter. He cut out the Pope, destroyed holy houses, threw nuns and monks out on the street or had them killed, and took all the gold in those places for himself. Otherwise, the basic tenants of the Catholic faith were left alone. Anyone who dared to say that the bread and wine served at communion was not the body and blood of Jesus were punished severely. Henry died and was buried a Catholic. Henry’s reasons for the change were very selfish ones and nothing to do with religion. It was about power for him. It was Edward and Elizabeth who brought about real change.

I think his accident in the tilt yard didn’t help matters concerning how he had started to change. It certainly increased his neurosis and paranoia as Shae has pointed out. There are cases where head trauma has changed the person entirely to the point that they wake up talking in a completely different way and someties in a completely different language too.
I agree Shae, H8 was really a very large (Jumbo sized) petulant child who seemed to throw a hissy fit whenever he didn’t get his own way (The terrible 2’s as they are called) certainly there is no doubt he was extremely intelligent, and in his Golden youth years, he was a charming man with inppecable manners, but even so he still did things that showed that the Golden Sod was very much evident. Buckingham for instance, did Buckingham actually plot to take H8 throne and commit regaside? Why should he?. H8 sending Empson and Dudley to their deaths, I’ve always thought this was very vindictive. Dudley and Empson hadn’t really done anything to warrant their deaths. They had mearly been doing their job. H7 needed money in the bank Dudley and Empson were the best people to do that and they were successful in doing it. Ok so they p***** off a lot of people on how they went about it, but whatever they did it worked H8 was a very wealthy king, and perhaps could have been even wealthier if he hadn’t chopped them up. As it was it only took H8 about 2 or 3 years to spend all that his father had built up.

As for K.H and Culpepper as I’ve already mentioned I do feel that they were very attracted to each other. Did he perhaps just see K.H as just another conquest. I’ve just had a very off the latch idea (Yeah I know) but are we sure that the Thomas Culpepper that was diddling with K.H was THE Culpepper that was H8’s body servant. Did THE Culpepper take the rap for his cousin/brother. The Master Culpepper letter may have been for either one of them. Actually I doubt that the letter was even intended for Culpepper in the first place To me at least the Master Culpepper bit was added later, to further incrimiate K.H. and why should she write such a letter when she knew that such a letter may well go walkabout and end up on someone’s desk. That’s of course if she even wrote the letter in the first place. I’ve read it a few times now and somehow it just doesn’t sit right with me.

Found a little titbit (don’t you just love them) about old pilsbury dough boy, apartently he used to eat daisies by the bucket load, daisies were a cure in those days for indigestion and he suffered quite badly with it as he got older. It makes me wonder if he really did have diabetes, as one of the symptoms of diabetes is cronic indigestion.

Well you can’t say I don’t keep you on the hop.. But I don’t know if that is a good or a bad thing.. you might want to hop all over me. LOL. :0